SeanK and Katie M., I just wanted to say I loved and wroded up your frodo's journey as christian allegory discussion from earlier. I'm not a religious person. Tolkien has always made christianity work for me in a way that all the powermongering bastards that run organized religion never have been able to. I was going to say that if there was a church of tolkien writings, I'd belong to that, but I suppose I already do.
Having said those things, I really don't want to put other people off, because I strongly dislike that kind of "agenda-izing" about things I love, particularly this one, but it has always been there on some level, as the good professor intended, in his way. I'm much more about the overt mythologizing but I had to give Sean and Katie their props for an exchange that rang verytrue for me.
As with the other two, I have to see it again, to get over my "They changed that?!?" issues. That said, initial impressions:
(Side question - when can we stop whitefonting in here? A week after it's been out?)
I cried four times, all in the first hour -
My first cry was
the lighting of the beacons.
I also cried when
Merry and Pippin separated.
Can't remember the other two right now.
Big gasp moments included
GROND!! and all the orcs chanting it* the riding of the muster from Dunharrow * the moment all the ghost appear in the Paths of the Dead * the heads being catapulted over the Minas Tirith walls (shoulda known PJ couldn't resist THAT) * Gollum's gleeful fall *
And even though I've read the book several times, and was waiting for it for 20 minutes, I still shrieked when
Shelob stuck Frodo.
I, too wish they had kept more of Eowyn's speech, dammit. I have thrilled to that speech since before I could read (RotK record). Still, it was cool that she
was the first to figure out how to disable the Mumakil.
I was in a theater where everyone was in tune with the HoYay, perhaps too much so. A lot of scenes y'all have listed as crying or gasping scenes, such as
the reunion at Rivendell and Sam carrying Frodo
provoked our whole theater to laughter. It spoiled several moments for me.
Some of the changes seemed really pointless, and as such, irritated me. Those include
Denethor's flaming leap. I prefer the book version, where he unveils the palantir and we understand his madness and despair. Also, that incredibly inexplicable change where the fate of Arwen is tied to the ring. So much for making her a subject and not an object.
I don't even hate Arwen in the books, nor do I hate Liv Tyler. But, boy, do I hate Liv Tyler as Arwen and the character as portrayed in the movie. I'm aware that I'm biased b/c of my deep and abiding worship of Eowyn. And I don't care.
I don't think Aragorn was consciously leading Eowyn on. I think he likes her and respects her and wishes he could love her, but realizes that she's actually more in love with what he represents than himself. I think maybe we will get to see more
Eowyn/Faramir action
in the DVD's, as the studio stills I was looking at yesterday very definitely showed a scene from
The Houses of Healing.
Yup. Need to see it again. Preferably in an empty theater. Issues.
One more thing. I love Pippin, and I love Billy Boyd. I really wish he could get some kind of award for the work he did in this movie, and I know it won't happen. He really primed the waterworks every. single. time. he was onscreen.
smonster, I'm sorry that your audience laughed at those scenes! Though I suppose both reactions (laughing and crying) show that you see the HoYay; it just depends on how you feel about it.
I don't even hate Arwen in the books, nor do I hate Liv Tyler. But, boy, do I hate Liv Tyler as Arwen and the character as portrayed in the movie.
That's it exactly. Although my Liv-thoughts used to be neutral-to-decent, and I'm afraid my seething Arwen!Liv hatred will infect my feelings toward everything else she ever does, ever.
I kept expecting to see
Luke Skywalker flying in and around Oliphaunt legs
.
Ooh! amych is right! The guy behind me cracked, (whitefonted for possible movie scene giveaway. Longshot, but...) "Did we learn nothing from the invasion of Hoth?" I nearly snorted pepsi out my nose.
Beverly, I have to admit, I was thinking that for myself.
That's it exactly. Although my Liv-thoughts used to be neutral-to-decent, and I'm afraid my seething Arwen!Liv hatred will infect my feelings toward everything else she ever does, ever.
This is me as well. I like Arwen in the books well enough, and there was no Arwen hate through most of the first movie and I might have been OK if she didn't have to speak Elvish in every.single.effing.interview.ever. By TTT I had the Arwen!Liv hatred full on.
snerk, Bev. I'd ask if we might've been behind you, but we got stuck in the front row. Anyway, we are that kind of geeks.
I have to say,
I was sorry to see that although plenty of good guys and horses got stomped, the pivotal scene where the mumakil go mad and start stomping on their own drivers was lacking. Because there just wasn't enough stomping. Also, nobody ever did get clever enough to shoot for their eyes, or else Rohirrim aim is worse than I thought.
It's all about the new and exciting ways to show carnage in a PG-13 movie, folks.
Another who isn't really a fan of
how Arwen came across throughout. I think given my druthers I'd (a) delete her entirely from the proceedings or (b) give her large amounts of agency, i.e. make her Elladan/Elrohir in addition to being Glorfindel, and cut out some of the waffling or (c) make her a do-er of some sort, any sort! Because really, although she was actually in all 3 movies, in the 2nd and 3rd all she did was ride in circles and cry.
