I don't even hate Arwen in the books, nor do I hate Liv Tyler. But, boy, do I hate Liv Tyler as Arwen and the character as portrayed in the movie.

That's it exactly. Although my Liv-thoughts used to be neutral-to-decent, and I'm afraid my seething Arwen!Liv hatred will infect my feelings toward everything else she ever does, ever.

I kept expecting to see Luke Skywalker flying in and around Oliphaunt legs .

Ooh! amych is right! The guy behind me cracked, (whitefonted for possible movie scene giveaway. Longshot, but...) "Did we learn nothing from the invasion of Hoth?" I nearly snorted pepsi out my nose.

Bwah! Aw, cute geek.

Beverly, I have to admit, I was thinking that for myself.

That's it exactly. Although my Liv-thoughts used to be neutral-to-decent, and I'm afraid my seething Arwen!Liv hatred will infect my feelings toward everything else she ever does, ever.

This is me as well. I like Arwen in the books well enough, and there was no Arwen hate through most of the first movie and I might have been OK if she didn't have to speak Elvish in every.single.effing.interview.ever. By TTT I had the Arwen!Liv hatred full on.

snerk, Bev. I'd ask if we might've been behind you, but we got stuck in the front row. Anyway, we are that kind of geeks.

I have to say, I was sorry to see that although plenty of good guys and horses got stomped, the pivotal scene where the mumakil go mad and start stomping on their own drivers was lacking. Because there just wasn't enough stomping. Also, nobody ever did get clever enough to shoot for their eyes, or else Rohirrim aim is worse than I thought.

It's all about the new and exciting ways to show carnage in a PG-13 movie, folks.

Another who isn't really a fan of how Arwen came across throughout. I think given my druthers I'd (a) delete her entirely from the proceedings or (b) give her large amounts of agency, i.e. make her Elladan/Elrohir in addition to being Glorfindel, and cut out some of the waffling or (c) make her a do-er of some sort, any sort! Because really, although she was actually in all 3 movies, in the 2nd and 3rd all she did was ride in circles and cry.

all she did was ride in circles and cry.

Don't forget having a vision of her perfect fulfillment through mommyhood . Gak. I want an Eowyn of my very own.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with Nutty re: Arwen. I liked her quite a bit in FOTR and wholeheartedly defended PJ's decision to give her Glorfindel's role. But she was so dull and soppy in TTT and ROTK that I couldn't root for her like I wanted to. Remember those rumors about Arwen showing up and fighting at Helm's Deep, that we all mocked so roundly? Maybe that would have worked better after all! Although probably not with Liv Tyler in the role. But she definitely needed to be, as someone said upthread, more subject than object. It ties in, too, with what I said a ways back about when she shows up at Aragorn's coronation. She looks so young! It should be clearer that she is in fact much older than Aragorn. I wish she had been more assertive and less in-sudden-inexplicable-mortal-peril.

But re: making Arwen more of a do-er. (Is the whitefont really necessary here I am asking myself...dunno.)

I agree completely but at the same time am glad they DID NOT put her at Helm's Deep as they originally planned because that would have been wrong in soo many ways.

eta: Arwen at Helm's Deep x-post! (Is it an X post if we are making opposite points though? Prob. not.)