snerk, Bev. I'd ask if we might've been behind you, but we got stuck in the front row. Anyway, we are that kind of geeks.

I have to say, I was sorry to see that although plenty of good guys and horses got stomped, the pivotal scene where the mumakil go mad and start stomping on their own drivers was lacking. Because there just wasn't enough stomping. Also, nobody ever did get clever enough to shoot for their eyes, or else Rohirrim aim is worse than I thought.

It's all about the new and exciting ways to show carnage in a PG-13 movie, folks.

Another who isn't really a fan of how Arwen came across throughout. I think given my druthers I'd (a) delete her entirely from the proceedings or (b) give her large amounts of agency, i.e. make her Elladan/Elrohir in addition to being Glorfindel, and cut out some of the waffling or (c) make her a do-er of some sort, any sort! Because really, although she was actually in all 3 movies, in the 2nd and 3rd all she did was ride in circles and cry.

all she did was ride in circles and cry.

Don't forget having a vision of her perfect fulfillment through mommyhood . Gak. I want an Eowyn of my very own.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with Nutty re: Arwen. I liked her quite a bit in FOTR and wholeheartedly defended PJ's decision to give her Glorfindel's role. But she was so dull and soppy in TTT and ROTK that I couldn't root for her like I wanted to. Remember those rumors about Arwen showing up and fighting at Helm's Deep, that we all mocked so roundly? Maybe that would have worked better after all! Although probably not with Liv Tyler in the role. But she definitely needed to be, as someone said upthread, more subject than object. It ties in, too, with what I said a ways back about when she shows up at Aragorn's coronation. She looks so young! It should be clearer that she is in fact much older than Aragorn. I wish she had been more assertive and less in-sudden-inexplicable-mortal-peril.

But re: making Arwen more of a do-er. (Is the whitefont really necessary here I am asking myself...dunno.)

I agree completely but at the same time am glad they DID NOT put her at Helm's Deep as they originally planned because that would have been wrong in soo many ways.

eta: Arwen at Helm's Deep x-post! (Is it an X post if we are making opposite points though? Prob. not.)

Heh, tina. I don't know, I'm conflicted. I just want Arwen to be more interesting, less irritating. Less tearstained, more bloodstained.

just want Arwen to be more interesting, less irritating. Less tearstained, more bloodstained.

Totally. The only reason I am so anti-Arwen at Helm's Deep is because I balk at the idea of an Arwen and Eowyn jealousy stare-down and want nothing to distract from Eowyn getting to know/falling for Aragorn.

But see, here's where I am a book purist, because I want it to feel right that Aragorn should be wholly in love with Arwen. I don't want to be watching them and thinking "he should totally have gone for Eowyn instead!"

I liked that Arwen was more of a doer in FotR, even at the cost of Glorfindel and I'm a purist meanie. I regret that they chose to schmoopify her over the last two movies, but she doesn't bug me that much. I'm not in the LivMustDie!1! camp, because I thought she did fine with what she was given. Even Cate Blanchett couldn't really give me Galadriel although she did an excellent job, and she's one of the best actors of her generation. I think Arwen, treated as she deserves, was beyond the reach of our moviemakers.

I had this whitefonted, then I realized, uh, there's nothing spoily in here.

See, when I saw the kid, I thought they were about to transition into Ghan Buri Ghan. What actually happened, therefore, was a bit of a dissapointment. I also realized that they weren't going to give Frodo the Evenstar, even though that's where the idea for it came from in the first place t /grump