I'm just, uh, just feeling kinda... truthsome right now. And, uh... life's just too damn short for ifs and maybes.

Mal ,'Heart Of Gold'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Susan W. - Jan 04, 2004 5:02:21 pm PST #7073 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

I think a lot of the imbalance in the ep comes form the fact that RILEY fucked up pretty seriously and for not much of a reason, yet Buffy takes the blame. And it is weird and wrong and stinks of someone else's issues.

Wordy McWord with a heaping side of Word Sauce.


Frankenbuddha - Jan 04, 2004 5:03:49 pm PST #7074 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

And Xander speech, I think, was more a reflection of his relationship with Anya than Buffy's with Riley.

Plus a big dose of Riley being the only boyfriend of Buffy he ever liked.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jan 04, 2004 5:06:20 pm PST #7075 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Did he even meet Parker?


Elena - Jan 04, 2004 5:08:03 pm PST #7076 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.

I think a lot of the imbalance in the ep comes form the fact that RILEY fucked up pretty seriously and for not much of a reason, yet Buffy takes the blame. And it is weird and wrong and stinks of someone else's issues.

Buffy never told anyone about the suck jobs. Spike knew, Buffy knew. No one else was clued in. This is my recollection. And it would be Buffy's issues (pride? inferiority?) that would account for this.


Lyra Jane - Jan 04, 2004 5:08:26 pm PST #7077 of 10001
Up with the sun

Parker wasn't a boyfriend, though.

Elena, it's a fair point that Xander didn't have full knowledge. He could have figured it out from Buffy's freakout over the idea of consensual biting earlier that day, but he may not have.


Frankenbuddha - Jan 04, 2004 5:08:29 pm PST #7078 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Did he even meet Parker?

More to the point, I don't think he was ever told about Parker - not even after Beer, Bad. But I don't think Parker = boyfriend, either.


Elena - Jan 04, 2004 5:12:41 pm PST #7079 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.

He could have figured it out from Buffy's freakout over the idea of consensual biting earlier that day, but he may not have.

No one else did. Not Giles. Not Willow. I think that it's unfair to blame her friends for not being able to read Buffy's mind and basing their actions only on what they'd been told and seen.


Lyra Jane - Jan 04, 2004 5:14:06 pm PST #7080 of 10001
Up with the sun

Buffy never told anyone about the suck jobs. Spike knew, Buffy knew. No one else was clued in.

The audience knew, and I don't see any reason to assume the characters weren't told offscreen. Giles, at least, should have been able to connect the dots. I can't remember if it came up one way or another during AYW.

Edit for X-post: Elena, it sounds like it's ambiguous. I tend to assume characters know everything that happens onscreen unless it's made clear they do not or could not. YMMV.


§ ita § - Jan 04, 2004 5:17:25 pm PST #7081 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I don't see any reason to assume the characters weren't told offscreen

That description works for Xander's big lie too, though.

I always assume that if we're meant to think, if some interpretation hinges on it, person A knows fact X, it will be explicitly presented to us, one way or another. Especially with Buffy, who's bad at communicating.


Susan W. - Jan 04, 2004 5:17:45 pm PST #7082 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

I didn't assume the other characters knew, but it wasn't their perspective that bothered me, it was the show's--IOW, on some level I can't quite articulate, I feel like the show itself was too hard on Buffy and not sufficiently hard on Riley throughout ItW and AYW.