Though the writers would have to come up with a good enough reason for them to come to LA and involve Angel and friends.

Well, there'salso the D'Hoffryn/Cordelia connection (Not like that. Ewww.) although no one quite clearly remembers it. D'Hoffryn has seriously fucked with the women closest to Xander. It wouldn't take much of story mechanism to set them against each other and draw in the MoG.

See, I heard an unspoken "because I'd really rather not gruesomely kill him right now" right after that.

Well, yeah. And he could, but really, I think D'Hoffryn did have a higher opinion of Xander than other baddies did.

Xander was the guy that penis-whipped his star pupil into domesticity, after all. I don't think D'Hoffryn saw him in terms of a tactical threat, I think he saw him as the no-account punk that cost him his surrogate daughter. Xander had already put more of a hurtin' on him than Buffy could ever manage.

Season 5 is the one that gave us "Into the Woods" and "Spiral," after all.

Both of which I liked. (Actually in the case of Spiral more than liked. And yes I know-magic horsies etc. For me it's a perfect Buffy combo of Stagecoach and Beau Geste.)

For me it's a perfect Buffy combo of Stagecoach and Beau Geste

And we know it's one of Joss' favorite themes. After all, he did an entire series based on this. Spiral was just the trial run so he could work out the kinks for Firefly.

Well, there'salso the D'Hoffryn/Cordelia connection

What connection is that? I don't quite clearly remember it.

The only one I can recall is a tenious one, in that Anya was working for him when she granted Cordy's wish.

Tenuous at best. Willow's got stronger than that.

(Friendly stompy reminder that this area is no longer NAFDA, so S5 Angel discussion should go in the Angel thread. Haven't seen any spoilers yet, but be careful.)

"Into the Woods" was well-acted and well-directed, and the actual lines are not bad.

The whole arc just completely fails to make any sense. It made so little sense thast my husband commented on it -- and he liked a lot of things that I do not see the sense in. Xander's reaction, especially, makes no sense, unless he sees getting suck jobs from vampires as being a boyfriend boo-boo on the level of, say, leaving one's dirty socks on the floor.

What I wondered while watching yesterday was this: what if Riley's infraction had been more sympathetic? What if he had started seeing an ordinary girl -- maybe an ex-girlfriend -- behind Buffy's back, after Buffy's "neglect" of him was made much more explicit than it actually was?

Alternately, what if all of the characters were completely sympathetic with Buffy, recognizing the severity of his betrayal, and she was the only one who blamed herself?

I think a lot of the imbalance in the ep comes form the fact that RILEY fucked up pretty seriously and for not much of a reason, yet Buffy takes the blame. And it is weird and wrong and stinks of someone else's issues.

Thoughts, comments, etc.?

Xander's reaction, especially, makes no sense, unless he sees getting suck jobs from vampires as being a boyfriend boo-boo on the level of, say, leaving one's dirty socks on the floor.

I'm quite, quite sure that Xander never knew about the suck jobs. Buffy told him that Riley went out and got bit, but not that it was consentual and sexual. If he had known, I really don't think that Xander would have been at all supportive of Riley.

And Xander speech, I think, was more a reflection of his relationship with Anya than Buffy's with Riley.