Never goes smooth. How come it never goes smooth?

Mal ,'Safe'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Lyra Jane - Jan 04, 2004 5:08:26 pm PST #7077 of 10001
Up with the sun

Parker wasn't a boyfriend, though.

Elena, it's a fair point that Xander didn't have full knowledge. He could have figured it out from Buffy's freakout over the idea of consensual biting earlier that day, but he may not have.


Frankenbuddha - Jan 04, 2004 5:08:29 pm PST #7078 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Did he even meet Parker?

More to the point, I don't think he was ever told about Parker - not even after Beer, Bad. But I don't think Parker = boyfriend, either.


Elena - Jan 04, 2004 5:12:41 pm PST #7079 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.

He could have figured it out from Buffy's freakout over the idea of consensual biting earlier that day, but he may not have.

No one else did. Not Giles. Not Willow. I think that it's unfair to blame her friends for not being able to read Buffy's mind and basing their actions only on what they'd been told and seen.


Lyra Jane - Jan 04, 2004 5:14:06 pm PST #7080 of 10001
Up with the sun

Buffy never told anyone about the suck jobs. Spike knew, Buffy knew. No one else was clued in.

The audience knew, and I don't see any reason to assume the characters weren't told offscreen. Giles, at least, should have been able to connect the dots. I can't remember if it came up one way or another during AYW.

Edit for X-post: Elena, it sounds like it's ambiguous. I tend to assume characters know everything that happens onscreen unless it's made clear they do not or could not. YMMV.


§ ita § - Jan 04, 2004 5:17:25 pm PST #7081 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I don't see any reason to assume the characters weren't told offscreen

That description works for Xander's big lie too, though.

I always assume that if we're meant to think, if some interpretation hinges on it, person A knows fact X, it will be explicitly presented to us, one way or another. Especially with Buffy, who's bad at communicating.


Susan W. - Jan 04, 2004 5:17:45 pm PST #7082 of 10001
Good Trouble and Righteous Fights

I didn't assume the other characters knew, but it wasn't their perspective that bothered me, it was the show's--IOW, on some level I can't quite articulate, I feel like the show itself was too hard on Buffy and not sufficiently hard on Riley throughout ItW and AYW.


Elena - Jan 04, 2004 5:20:33 pm PST #7083 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.

The audience knew, and I don't see any reason to assume the characters weren't told offscreen.

See, I think that if it's never brought up again onsscreen the default assumption is the status quo. Because you could just as easily assume that Buffy was told about the big lie offscreen at any point during seasons 3-6, until we find out on screen during season 7 that she hasn't been told.

Giles, at least, should have been able to connect the dots between Riley's disappearance and Buffy's anger about consensual biting.

You think? Because I don't see it. Maybe because I need people to flat out tell me things.

I can't remember if it came up one way or another during AYW.

It didn't come up at all. Buffy didn't even mention it. Yet another reason why I dislike AYW.


Lyra Jane - Jan 04, 2004 5:22:00 pm PST #7084 of 10001
Up with the sun

And serial-posting..

I think that it's unfair to blame her friends for not being able to read Buffy's mind and basing their actions only on what they'd been told and seen.

I agree that we can't expect mind-reading. But in terms of dramatic form, everything the show tells us is that the breakup was Buffy's fault. It clearly wasn't, and the imbalance between what the audience sees (Buffy being understandably preoccupied by her mom's illness, Riley going out and cheating in a really terrible way) and what the characters say happened (Buffy withdrawing, Riley acting out in an understandable and forgivable way) interests me.


Elena - Jan 04, 2004 5:22:20 pm PST #7085 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.

I didn't assume the other characters knew, but it wasn't their perspective that bothered me, it was the show's--IOW, on some level I can't quite articulate, I feel like the show itself was too hard on Buffy and not sufficiently hard on Riley throughout ItW and AYW.

Bingo, Susan.


Lyra Jane - Jan 04, 2004 5:24:15 pm PST #7086 of 10001
Up with the sun

Because you could just as easily assume that Buffy was told about the big lie offscreen at any point during seasons 3-6, until we find out on screen during season 7 that she hasn't been told.

I did assume this, actually. And went on assumign it until i posted the day after the ep aired and everyone explained to me that I had misread the scene.

I still think it's silly that it was kept a secret for four years, then came up in one conversation and never again, but that's my loathing for loose ends of the un-pointed variety.

it wasn't their perspective that bothered me, it was the show's--IOW, on some level I can't quite articulate,

THIS is what I am trying to articulate.