The Giles thing could have been neat it if really had been about being observant enough to notice he wasn't touching anything. But as far as I remember, we only really started discussing that aspect when we were casting around for reasons why he was so completely unGilesy to begin with. And by that point, I was not alone in desperately hoping it was true. The Joyce thing is just weird - it's a thread they dropped, fine. Pretending there's nothing off about it just makes JE look foolish, IMO. But the Giles thing felt so dismissive of both the character and the fans that it still rankles.

The Tara story, OTOH, just rings to me like Joss playing around. I don't buy it, and I don't really think I'm meant to.

I loved that one.Giles and D&D I mean.

But as far as I remember, we only really started discussing that aspect when we were casting around for reasons why he was so completely unGilesy to begin with

It was mentioned in the shooting script; I think that was brought up pretty early in the discussion.

It was mentioned in the shooting script; I think that was brought up pretty early in the discussion.

The more I think about it, the more I think that it was never intended as a misdirect per se, but, rather, they were just making sure they were consistent. That is, when the scoobies noticed and thought back about whether Giles had touched anything/one, they couldn't remember him doing so, and they wanted what they had shown the viewers to also be consistent with that. It's a case where reading the script gave away something that might not have been so obvious otherwise.

Giles being written poorly, however, is a whole 'nother thing altogether.

I for one read the Joss interview and I'm really glad he comes clean about wanting AB first and having to work Kennedy in, and sticking Caleb in at the end for corporeality, and that Giles was just a silly joke on the fans. This way I know that when Joss says he arced out a story from S1 through S5 it's not bullshit, because he's come clean about lots of other stuff. His mistakes lend credence to his successes.

WRT Joyce's "she won't choose you", I don't know why Jane says it was the FE messing with her. Didn't Buffy try to send Dawn away, in a very underhanded way? I thought that was the fulfillment of that prophecy.

Just because it's the FE, it doesn't mean it's not right. The FE got right at the heart of the humans it was trying to manipulate and it did it by knowing them. It not only knoew Andrew's weakness, it had to know Warren as well, to fool Andrew. So, to fool Dawn it had to know a bit aout BUffy, I think.

Just because it's the FE, it doesn't mean it's not right.

I agree with this. I just think since it was intended to be the FE visiting Dawn, it sh/could have been done differently. Knowing Joyce was intentionally written as FE!Joyce in CwDP, the poltergeisty action that left the house a wreck, the glowy-angel look of Joyce and other bits, coming on the heels of the particular incantation that Dawn ... incanted - well, to me, it was poorly executed. Of course nobody is paying me anything for anything I do.

And don't forget, the FE specialized in working its evil by telling the truth (in its own fashion).

Just because it's the FE, it doesn't mean it's not right. The FE got right at the heart of the humans it was trying to manipulate and it did it by knowing them. It not only knoew Andrew's weakness, it had to know Warren as well, to fool Andrew. So, to fool Dawn it had to know a bit aout BUffy, I think.

But by giving Dawn the knowledge, she was less upset when it actually happened and was more helpful at the end with fighting the FE. I am going to pretend that Jane didn't understand the question, and that it really was Joyce.

I am going to pretend that Jane didn't understand the question, and that it really was Joyce.

A reasonable way to look at it. Because it fits my theory that Buffy "didn't choose" Dawn when she asked Xander to drive Dawn far away from Sunnydale.