Sincerely asking. Don't understand.

Got it. No worries.

Um. Isn't that what we're talking about doing?

Yes, at the moment with SPN.

Is the idea that, rather than setting precedent, we've done it too much and must stop or else change the board's essential nature?

I think there's certainly some need for thought, if not caution, there. Those of us who sojourned at WX while waiting for b.org to be created and launched are familiar with how it's laid out. Those of us who did not might want to go to The TV Funhouse forum at World Crossing and take a good look around.

Then come back to The Phoenix and decide if WX is what you want to recreate here. I'm sure that, as neutral as I'm trying to be, you can all tell what my answer would be. But maybe that *is* what the majority of posters want. I don't know. I just think those who haven't seen it might want to get an idea what it looks like.

Or you could look at TWOP's Scifi and Action Adventure Forum which is more similar to here because you have the option of subscribing to individual threads.

The feeling is NOT "I want to discuss SPN, and I don't really care who I discuss it with; I just want to fling my opinion out into the aether void and see if someone with a basic grasp of spelling and grammar decides to answer."

Rather, the feeling is "I want to discuss SPN with these people who I already know and like and enjoy discussing a crazy array of other topics with."

This. Er, not that I even watch SPN, but this is definitely what I've thought and felt about other shows. I knew WX was out there, and I posted once or twice a few years ago, but I didn't know (most of) those people or the rhythms of the conversations, and I stopped even lurking very quickly. I love it here, I love the spicy brains of these particular people, what they see, what they think, how they express it. If all the Buffistas who watch whatever-show-I-like wanted to get together at WX and talk about it, I'd be there in a flash for the combination of beloved show and beloved co-conversationalists. But I'd still wonder why we were running off to that other place, why we couldn't sit around and talk here at home.

And at the same time, I feel awful that so many SPNers are hurt and upset and seeing a dedicated thread as exile instead of a spiffy new playroom. I feel like I must have totally misunderstood the meaning of media fannishness and the function of Boxed Set all along, and I'm now kind of glad that I'm so far behind in all the shows discussed that I almost never even lurk there, because if I lurked enough I'd probably post and then I'd make an ass of myself.

I was going to not vote at all because I'm not involved in the thread (although at least half the shows discussed there are on my wishlist for DVDs or just enough free time to Tivo them (although although, I also find the bucketness a little overwhelming; I'll watch two or three episodes of Doctor Who and then skim the thread and realize three or four entirely new shows are under discussion, and I'm still a year behind in the only one I've had time to watch at all, and I won't be able to read everything and sample everyone's words, from Deep Thoughts to Squee, for probably another two or three years)), but now I'm tempted to vote No because it's so hurtful to the SPNers.

Though, again, frustrated, because I do love dedicated threads, I just want them here, with us. Which probably makes the anti-proliferationistas sad and upset.

In conclusion, I have no conclusions. Someone please shut me up.

I think dedicated threads for big-love shows are good. But I know we don't do things that way 'round these parts.

Why not? What the heck is wrong with changing the culture? What is so holy about our culture that it can't be modified? That's what so many of these arguments seem to come down to--and for all the "Oh, I don't want to offend anyone" girl-politeness, this is an argument.

So we're doing something someone else has done. Big whoop.

Someone's going to be offended, and I can cope with that, but this is how I feel: there is a thread of "Mustn't change our super special happy place, because here I am super special happy, and any change to Super Special Happy Place endangers me." Cope and deal.

Something's broken. Put everything on the table and see if something really cool and workable can be put together out of the pieces, even if that something doesn't look like "the way it's always been."

My feeling about what our board culture is goes back to the roots of the community. I know there are lots and lots of people who've come on since then, but the real beginning was a thread at TT called Buffy where a group of people talked about Buffy... and then everything else as well. The creation of every new thread has been traumatic. I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the sturm und drang over creating the original Natter thread. That was going to kill the culture of the Buffy thread, and create a legion of thread-nannies and whatever else terrible was going to happen. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't be adding this particular new thread, but this is (obviously, cf Heroes) not a new conversation. (Is that how you're supposed to use cf?)

In conclusion, I have no conclusions.

What the heck is wrong with changing the culture? What is so holy about our culture that it can't be modified?

Well, you know--if you like the culture and don't like the alternatives posited, everything in the world is wrong with changing the culture.

Cope and deal.

Is the onus more on them to cope and deal than it is on the people who think something's broken?

It all comes down to a selfish decision in the end--any high-handed "for the good of us" decisions are all based on what that person thinks is "good" and "us." People are going to be displeased, feel disenfranchised--but someone has just told you why they would, and you seem to be dismissing the reasons because they aren't yours.

Well, yeah.

Something's broken.

Fundamental disagreement. I don't think anything is broken. Certainly not anything that can be fixed with a hammer and some duct tape. A hamster isn't a racehorse, and you can't just slap a saddle on it and place your bet.

B.org was created to be one thing, a community. It was created by a community of people who collaborated, made lists, discussed and hammered out what we wanted it to be. We built in methods for change and adaptation, and while those methods are creaky and slower than some people would like, they do work. They are working.

Granted, there are a lot of people here who only found the board long after her launch, when she was just another posting board on the wide sea of internets. And it may make no difference to them that we are not another WX or TWOP posting board, so why shouldn't we remake our board in that mold?

I think The Phoenix is unique. I think we're special. And before we go ripping stuff apart to build a clone of something already done, we need to take another look at the community we'd be endangering.

Because lots of the people who make up this community wouldn't hang around if it was no longer a community. Well rid, you may say? Well, it's your right to say so. It's mine to say different, and I do.

I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the sturm und drang over creating the original Natter thread. That was going to kill the culture of the Buffy thread, and create a legion of thread-nannies and whatever else terrible was going to happen.

See! And this all would never have happened if we hadn't had a natter thread! I blame BHP!

Just kidding!

But I do wish that we'd had a more esoteric "where do we want to go" discussion following the experimental threads. I know that sort of thing drives people batty, but I value our ability to plan for our future and shape a universe that works for us.

I think there should be respect for our culture and history. But I think there's room to look for a new shape. I know I'm the first person to point and say, "but we used to do it this way because..." I think that's valuable because we can avoid past mistakes and capitalize on past successes.

Yeah, we're definitely having an argument. But I also think no one here intends to hurt feelings. So the hurt is coming from where our rough edges are rubbing up against each other. We probably won't come to a solution that's equitable for everyone. But I hope we're able to continue to nourish the friendships we've developed here over the years.

before we go ripping stuff apart to build a clone of something already done

Because lots of the people who make up this community wouldn't hang around if it was no longer a community.

Bev, I understand your concerns, but I also don't see anyone trying to make a clone of something already done. And I also don't think that creating a one-show thread is going to make this community no longer a community.

See! And this all would never have happened if we hadn't had a natter thread! I blame BHP!

I think you can blame Lyra Jane if you want, because wasn't she the first one to suggest a Natter thread, which was roundly shot down?