My feeling about what our board culture is goes back to the roots of the community. I know there are lots and lots of people who've come on since then, but the real beginning was a thread at TT called Buffy where a group of people talked about Buffy... and then everything else as well. The creation of every new thread has been traumatic. I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the sturm und drang over creating the original Natter thread. That was going to kill the culture of the Buffy thread, and create a legion of thread-nannies and whatever else terrible was going to happen. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't be adding this particular new thread, but this is (obviously, cf Heroes) not a new conversation. (Is that how you're supposed to use cf?)

In conclusion, I have no conclusions.

What the heck is wrong with changing the culture? What is so holy about our culture that it can't be modified?

Well, you know--if you like the culture and don't like the alternatives posited, everything in the world is wrong with changing the culture.

Cope and deal.

Is the onus more on them to cope and deal than it is on the people who think something's broken?

It all comes down to a selfish decision in the end--any high-handed "for the good of us" decisions are all based on what that person thinks is "good" and "us." People are going to be displeased, feel disenfranchised--but someone has just told you why they would, and you seem to be dismissing the reasons because they aren't yours.

Well, yeah.

Something's broken.

Fundamental disagreement. I don't think anything is broken. Certainly not anything that can be fixed with a hammer and some duct tape. A hamster isn't a racehorse, and you can't just slap a saddle on it and place your bet.

B.org was created to be one thing, a community. It was created by a community of people who collaborated, made lists, discussed and hammered out what we wanted it to be. We built in methods for change and adaptation, and while those methods are creaky and slower than some people would like, they do work. They are working.

Granted, there are a lot of people here who only found the board long after her launch, when she was just another posting board on the wide sea of internets. And it may make no difference to them that we are not another WX or TWOP posting board, so why shouldn't we remake our board in that mold?

I think The Phoenix is unique. I think we're special. And before we go ripping stuff apart to build a clone of something already done, we need to take another look at the community we'd be endangering.

Because lots of the people who make up this community wouldn't hang around if it was no longer a community. Well rid, you may say? Well, it's your right to say so. It's mine to say different, and I do.

I mean, I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers the sturm und drang over creating the original Natter thread. That was going to kill the culture of the Buffy thread, and create a legion of thread-nannies and whatever else terrible was going to happen.

See! And this all would never have happened if we hadn't had a natter thread! I blame BHP!

Just kidding!

But I do wish that we'd had a more esoteric "where do we want to go" discussion following the experimental threads. I know that sort of thing drives people batty, but I value our ability to plan for our future and shape a universe that works for us.

I think there should be respect for our culture and history. But I think there's room to look for a new shape. I know I'm the first person to point and say, "but we used to do it this way because..." I think that's valuable because we can avoid past mistakes and capitalize on past successes.

Yeah, we're definitely having an argument. But I also think no one here intends to hurt feelings. So the hurt is coming from where our rough edges are rubbing up against each other. We probably won't come to a solution that's equitable for everyone. But I hope we're able to continue to nourish the friendships we've developed here over the years.

before we go ripping stuff apart to build a clone of something already done

Because lots of the people who make up this community wouldn't hang around if it was no longer a community.

Bev, I understand your concerns, but I also don't see anyone trying to make a clone of something already done. And I also don't think that creating a one-show thread is going to make this community no longer a community.

See! And this all would never have happened if we hadn't had a natter thread! I blame BHP!

I think you can blame Lyra Jane if you want, because wasn't she the first one to suggest a Natter thread, which was roundly shot down?

And I also don't think that creating a one-show thread is going to make this community no longer a community.

Definitely agreed as we already have one-show threads. But this is the first time I can recall vocal people who watch the show not wanting a new thread.

We built in methods for change and adaptation, and while those methods are creaky and slower than some people would like, they do work. They are working.

Um, aren't those the methods that what we're using vis-a-vis the potential SPN thread? How is the process being side-stepped or subverted?

Yes. We all thought Lyra Jane was crazy, wanting to take the Natter out of the Buffy threads.

But this is the first time I can recall vocal people who watch the show not wanting a new thread.

There is that, though. Hrm.