because it wasn't formally announced over the summer that they were leaving

That's my recollection as well, nor do I remember Spike returning (or becoming a regular) season 4 being officially announced. So I'm thinking the definition we have is safe.

But if someone has a different recollection, I'd like to know.

Those weren't over the summer casting spoilers.

I don't understand why there is a need for a change to the current policy on posting casting spoilers when there is a both a spoiler thread and a spoiler lite thread where these issues can be discussed.

(I'm pulling these percentages out of my posterior, but I'd like to think they're pretty close.)

Because 95% of those who make a point to avoid spoilers still find out about regular cast spoilers during the summer, and 95% of that group doesn't have a problem with finding it out, and 95% of that group is dying to talk about it. And since that's a subset of a subset of the "avoid spoilers" group, everything's out but the main show thread.

I'm going to vote yes on this proposal only because I think it brings us closer to the middle of the thick gray line of spoiled/not-spoiled preference. There is no landing in the perfect spot on that line, though.

(My happy spot would be "Joss Whedon said it in public repeatedly and/or I'm missing out on more enjoyment dodging articles and Websites than I would lose by knowing the spoiler", FTR.)

Basically what Robert said is my argument.

To put it bluntly, I think the current spoiler policy is tyranny, if only by default, by a small minority. If I find out that is wrong, I will abide by the buffistas' wishes.

To put it bluntly, I think the current spoiler policy is tyranny, if only by default, by a small minority.

Huh. So I should have no expectation of remaining unspoiled? I don't think I'm being unreasonable about things. I don't get the promos, the promos spoil me, but I'm not saying that people can't talk about them. That would be unreasonable.

What I've been trying to get across is that what people think is everywhere and readily accessible and impossible to avoid might not be.

I think that part of what we are trying to decide here is exactly when something really is, or should be, common knowledge and thus open for general discussion.

Elena, I am talking about the proposed change, not a spoiler free-for-all.

It's the major ME and WB (in this case ALREADY, and especially ME) announced - and announced before the start of the season- changes, that I am talking about. If the majority feels that is too spoilery, fine. I have no problem with abiding. I just feel, for that definition of spoiler, that it is a small minority who are threatened.

If I hadn't had been spoiled by people talking/posting about these things I would still be happily unspoiled. I don't know how many people would be with me.

See, the thing is - I got spoiled by people who just assumed that 'everyone' knew. I'm just trying to get across that, no, not 'everyone' knows these things.

Another problem here is that, for those of us who are already spoiled, there is no way to know whether or not we would mind being spoiled before it happened. That is, if there were in fact some way to ask someone about whether they want to know "Valerie Harper is leaving Angel to do a spinoff" without spoiling them in the process of asking the question.

Linear time sucks. "I Will Remember You" is an anti-spoilage message. It's all so clear now.

See, that's a good point. Because for all I know the things that I know are not the things that you know and we'll never know because asking could cause unwanted knowing!

I only know about one BCS and not the other, and the one I know is the one the WB jumped the gun on, to Joss' expressed (ie. ME) regret. In the absence of that premature announciation, we might be waiting for this season's WB promos to learn that information (except for those on the spoiler circuit).

Like I've said, the short term effect for me is losing access to one thread for a month, so I don't think it is that big a deal. However, as a general policy, my preference would be for the existing policy.