I live in Canada where the healthcare is free and the beer is good and the doughnuts are from Tim's and words have u's in the proper place.

First and foremost, I think we are trying to determine this (and forgive me, but I can't remember exactly who said it, but I think it was Katie):

but I'm fine with yielding to the majority's comfort level on that.

Because a lot of people (so I have noticed) have been getting cheesed that we have to tippy-toe around every little (or big) casting item. I find it annoying, but if the majority says any casting spoiler is a spoiler, I can live with it.

On a related point, ita said:

But, if AD is not a regular cast member next year, I brace myself for exactly the same thing.

If AD isn't a regular cast member, would he be in the opening credits of the first episode of the season? ASH wasn't when he went to recurring. So in that case, you'd have about 5 minutes of thinking anything other than Wesley is a regular.

However, both Seth Green and Marc Blucas were in the credits until they departed. However, I suspect that both were announced as part of the cast in the pre-season publicity (4 and 5 respectively). Can some one confirm that, and can someone confirm that Spike was or was not due, officially, to be on the show, or becoming a regular, pre-season 4 Buffy? Those are relevant questions, I think.

The proposal wouldn't affect whether or not we could've talked about Oz or Riley's departures, I don't think, because it wasn't formally announced over the summer that they were leaving. (Well, I wouldn't know about Oz, but while I was spoiled for Riley's departure I don't think it was through official channels.)

because it wasn't formally announced over the summer that they were leaving

That's my recollection as well, nor do I remember Spike returning (or becoming a regular) season 4 being officially announced. So I'm thinking the definition we have is safe.

But if someone has a different recollection, I'd like to know.

Those weren't over the summer casting spoilers.

I don't understand why there is a need for a change to the current policy on posting casting spoilers when there is a both a spoiler thread and a spoiler lite thread where these issues can be discussed.

(I'm pulling these percentages out of my posterior, but I'd like to think they're pretty close.)

Because 95% of those who make a point to avoid spoilers still find out about regular cast spoilers during the summer, and 95% of that group doesn't have a problem with finding it out, and 95% of that group is dying to talk about it. And since that's a subset of a subset of the "avoid spoilers" group, everything's out but the main show thread.

I'm going to vote yes on this proposal only because I think it brings us closer to the middle of the thick gray line of spoiled/not-spoiled preference. There is no landing in the perfect spot on that line, though.

(My happy spot would be "Joss Whedon said it in public repeatedly and/or I'm missing out on more enjoyment dodging articles and Websites than I would lose by knowing the spoiler", FTR.)

Basically what Robert said is my argument.

To put it bluntly, I think the current spoiler policy is tyranny, if only by default, by a small minority. If I find out that is wrong, I will abide by the buffistas' wishes.

To put it bluntly, I think the current spoiler policy is tyranny, if only by default, by a small minority.

Huh. So I should have no expectation of remaining unspoiled? I don't think I'm being unreasonable about things. I don't get the promos, the promos spoil me, but I'm not saying that people can't talk about them. That would be unreasonable.

What I've been trying to get across is that what people think is everywhere and readily accessible and impossible to avoid might not be.

I think that part of what we are trying to decide here is exactly when something really is, or should be, common knowledge and thus open for general discussion.

Elena, I am talking about the proposed change, not a spoiler free-for-all.

It's the major ME and WB (in this case ALREADY, and especially ME) announced - and announced before the start of the season- changes, that I am talking about. If the majority feels that is too spoilery, fine. I have no problem with abiding. I just feel, for that definition of spoiler, that it is a small minority who are threatened.

If I hadn't had been spoiled by people talking/posting about these things I would still be happily unspoiled. I don't know how many people would be with me.

See, the thing is - I got spoiled by people who just assumed that 'everyone' knew. I'm just trying to get across that, no, not 'everyone' knows these things.