If you're not having sex, and there's no chance you're going to, then you're not dating

Well, since I have a fundamental lack of understanding of this, I can't help. Never mind. Sorry I made you cry, I had no idea this was this fraught.

But since they aren't wearing labels, I don't know how to find them.

They're in the asexual web communities, like AVEN, but I can't work out if you're saying you're situationally or inherently asexual or anything at all, but it's clear I should not press it. I just wanted to throw that link out there before I signed off.

You never have to have sex, ever. Anyone who insists you have to trade it for intimacy or companionship is an asshole whose penis you shouldn't touch anyway. That's not going to be where the fun sex lives!

(Also, if the first point I quoted is true, and you are just friends, then you don't lose them to a partner. If it's not true, then you're not just friends--you are dating.)

Sorry I made you cry,

You didn't! My issues, let me embarrass myself with them.

They're in the asexual web communities, like AVEN, but I can't work out if you're saying you're situationally or inherently asexual or anything at all,

I've been to AVEN, and just went there again. It seems to be a lot about providing information, which I don't really need. To clarify myself, I've been celibate for many years. Realizing I didn't have to have to sex basically led to me not forming any close relationships with men at all. Because I don't know how to do that, and I can't believe any man (who isn't asexual) would want to do that.

Don't let my angst kill the thread....

I think the Buffista love of nitpicking is not proving helpful. I think it is perfectly clear what you mean. I think anyone who does not understand what you mean probably should not be giving advice to you, because it adds to your stress,without helping. Unfortunately, while I understand perfectly what you mean, I'm pretty bad at this whole dating thing myself so can't offer advice. Other than I understand how something you are open to can still make you nervous as hell.

The one thing I think, is that your neutral zone should be quiet, relaxing - someplace familiar you like. Someone better than I at the dating thing might suggest what the tactful way is for you to end up picking the place.

What's wrong with asexual men? And there are AVEN message boards--I spent a lot of time reading the aromantic threads for a while. Before I realised that if I am, I'm not like most of the talky ones there.

I have close relationships with men without having sex with them fairly often. I mean, I'm all about the not having sex, although it's not deliberate in the least. It must be my smile.

eta:

I think anyone who does not understand what you mean probably should not be giving advice to you, because it adds to your stress,without helping

Typo, if you want to tell me to shut up, tell me to shut up.

And Zen, if I'm raising your stress level without providing any value, please also tell me to shut up.

I'm good with that.

What's wrong with asexual men?

There's nothing wrong with asexual men. But they're not helpful in the "trying for the fun sex" department.

And Zen, if I'm raising your stress level without providing any value, please also tell me to shut up.

You're not. You're getting me to think through some things that I've been shying away from thinking about, because it's a scary subject.

Zen, if it makes ya feel any better, you are a great kisser! IJS.

:: whistles innocently ::

There's nothing wrong with asexual men. But they're not helpful in the "trying for the fun sex" department.

So, the issue of sex is fraught for you right now, and because of that right now you don't want to deal with the potential of having sex, or being with someone who might be assuming that sex is in the future (whether short- or long-term future), but you don't want to take the possibility of sex off the table, because, damn it, people like it, and *you're* a person, so why in the HELL can't YOU get in on that yay!sex action, too?

If I'm in the ballpark with that description, OHAI. My issues, let me show you them.

Zen, if it makes ya feel any better, you are a great kisser! IJS.

Aw, thanks! So are you, ya know.

If I'm in the ballpark with that description

Yep, that's pretty much the ballpark.

because of that right now you don't want to deal with the potential of having sex

but "right now" has turned into 13 years, and I know if I don't make some effort to, to do *something*, I'll likely spend the rest of my life in this self-imposed isolation.