Just finished re-watchiing CoE Day Four and...I still cannot believe that somebody, Ianto or Gwen or somebody didn't smack Jack in the face with a shovel for his "plan".

"Really? All this work, all this convincing office temps to commit treason and stealing cars and computers and getting you your damn coat and all this time and effort and your plan, when we get right down to it, is 'Go away or we'll be mad!' You didn't have, like, anything to back that up? Nothing? Not a thing. So...you're fucking stupid. Right? I mean...just fucking stupid."

In my head I re-wrote Ianto's death scene so that when Jack's cradling his head and Ianto asks...

Ianto: It was good, yeah?

Jack: Yeah.

Ianto: WRONG! You got me killed for NOTHING you stupid jackhole! You unbelievably egotistical douchenozzle! *cough cough*. You know what? That thing you did with your tongue? My girlfriend did it better...while she was a cyberwoman! Fuck you, Captain Jack!" *dies*

Jack: O...kay. So...quick funeral for you, suit boy!

unless they're putting John Barrowman on Dr. Who I can't see them going forward on Torchwood without him.

Yeah, I thought Torchwood was a vehicle to continue Cap. Jack Harkness's story.

Jack has often had plans that boiled down to "get where things are happening and then deal with it as the moment provides".

Which seems to work better for The Doctor than Jack, although it does often work for Jack.

I agree, Calli. I'm just not sure where Jack's story goes next, especially if he's earthbound.

Well, I've wondered, since the line where Gwen's complaining to Rhys that what with all the things they dealt with in Torchwood, it was no wonder the pill failed, if that wasn't something RTD is throwing out there as a potential thread. He's not much for random throwaway lines and wouldn't it be something if somehow, Jack's DNA had done some sort of mating dance with Gwen's-- that would really mess with Jack's head and bring in a shitload of conflict with Rhys and etc. etc.

It's the sort of thing that would bring Jack back and keep him earthbound, especially since he's effectively lost Alice. He'd be all torn, with the not-worthy feelings, plus there's the whole issue that while he and Gwen share a massively deep connection and might even be soulmates, of a sort, they could never be together. She'd kill him. Repeatedly.

what with all the things they dealt with in Torchwood, it was no wonder the pill failed

I took that to mean that she forgot to take them occasionally.

I took that to mean that she forgot to take them occasionally.

Nah, my interpretation of that was that she took it, but given all the wonky stuff in Torchwood (and if I remember correctly, she even said alien technology, etc., etc.) that she meant the pill never stood a chance of actually working.

I really didn't think (and hope it doesn't mean) it had anything to do with Jack's DNA. The only magical hopes I had for his lineage would have been Stephen coming back to life, and since that didn't pan out, don't mess with Rhys. He doesn't deserve it.

Of course, if Stephen DID come back and I were his Mother there's no way in hell I'd be telling Jack.

don't mess with Rhys. He doesn't deserve it.

Yeah,but RTD is every bit as bad as Joss about the HEA for characters. He just doesn't do happy and contented terribly well.

I think giving Gwen a weird baby with Jack would belie Gwen's "Normal human with a life" status that makes her so valuable to dealing with the weirdness.

Which is a choice, of course. It'll be interesting to see where they go.