My mom is an only child, and while it never bothered her as a kid, it bothers her now, because she is the sole support for her aging mother. And, awful as it is to say, her mother is pretty much a selfish, neurotic, passive-aggressive bitch and always has been.

Now that I know what pregnancy feels like...hell the fuck no. I am not doing this 3 more times.

It's always unique, though -- all three of my pregnancies were different. Some worse than others. All, yeah, uncomfortable to a degree, but I'm one of those women who really enjoyed pregnancy.

Except for the ligament pain. And the aching back. And the hormone-induced weepiness. And the ovewhelming exhaustion. Wait a minute...

I'm making a distinction here between folks saying they selfishly want to have their own free time so choose not to have kids vs. people who think they would be bad parents because of said selfishness. If you actually had the kid, the selfishness is moot. You'd rise to the occasion.

I was thinking that any decent person (and certainly the people in this conversation) would rise to the occasion, but didn't know how to say it, without looking like I was trying to argue people into having kids, who shouldn't or don't want to have kids. You're not wrong.

Arguments for having kids:

1. All weekend long (and even into last night), Christopher kept accidentally referring to MLK as, "Doctor Martin Luther the King."

2. The kids knew I'd woken with a couple of anxiety dreams recently, and the other night, Ben (unsolicited) inserted a request into bedtime prayers that they anxiety dreams would stop. The other two followed suit (unsolicited, and surely out of love for me, but also, most likely, such that their big brother wouldn't trump them in what they imagine to be the sweetiecake sweeps). (For those keeping score, prayer worked.)

3. Last week, it was rainy at some point, and when they came in, their shoes were muddy. None of them originally took seriously my admonition to remove their shoes. Dh and Ben then went to Ben's basketball game. Chris and Julia stayed home with me.

I kept finding more mud that had been tracked through the house. When the guys came home, Julia, unsolicited, went to the door, hand on hip, and told them, "Mommy has been sweeping and vacuuming for almost the two hours. You can just take off those shoes now. You can't expect her to do this all night."

Argument against having kids:

1. A bad stomach virus is going around school. One teacher told me they are, "Dropping like flies."

I knew that if I didn't get some of my life as my own, I'd be a horrible parent. I needed time to do crazy stuff, do dangerous stuff, have experiences, so that I wouldn't resent the tiny howling boat anchor. In a way, I knew that my selfishness would make me a bad parent, not because I wouldn't stay up all night holding a sick child, but because I'd be resentful and therefore possibly short-tempered and mean.

I get all that. As much as I love parenting, it doesn't feed all of my needs, nor even close. Actually, there's probably more outlay than intake.

Parenting is definitely about the long-term emotional investment. Emmett's not much work now, but he's a lot of fun and love. It's like investing in a Mercedes and planning on keeping it for eighteen years. It's not the short term return where you get the value for your effort.

But it does get a lot easier when they're past the toddler stage. Much, much easier once they're in school.

Nonsense, Bev. My father was an alcoholic, and I am the one who was guilty for everything. We can't both be responsible for world peace.

Many of the people I know who are caring for aging parents have at least one sibling who isn't doing a lick except criticizing. They have all of the work of caring for the parents, with extra added resentment for their siblings.

If you actually had the kid, the selfishness is moot. You'd rise to the occasion.

This is, of course, true...we expand to the size of the space we create.

If I were to speak true, I'd have to say my choice is less about fear of weariness and much, much more about exhibiting a single trait passed down through my early experiences.

When I went to the surgeon to be sterilized at 29 the doctor said no way. I said, "let me tell you a little story." 5 minutes later, he signed the papers.

As it happens, I have been a good parent...to a whole lotta people...and while I have had wistful moments, I'm glad things have turned out just as they have.

eta:

Nonsense, Bev. My father was an alcoholic, and I am the one who was guilty for everything. We can't both be responsible for world peace.

Hey wait! That's my job. You kids, offa my guilt.

I'm a de facto only child, and while we've always missed Jenny, I think perhaps I was better off being an only for most of my life. True, the tendency to isolate in a world of my own got amplified and fed because of the circumstances, but I also had a chance to really bond with my mother, who is made of amazing. Plus, other reasons which notsomuch going in to right now. But yeah.

You'd rise to the occasion.

I call bullshit. There are too many bad parents out there to safely make that assumption. And a "Well, Bitches would rise to the occasion" rejoinder gets a "Bullshit" reply from me too. You just don't know. Being a good person doesn't ensure being a good parent, and being a Bitch doesn't either.

(For those keeping score, prayer worked.)

We already learned this from Mac.

I'll also note that I don't think everybody would make a good parent. Obviously not. Many people become parents before they're emotionally or financially ready. Many people back into it rather than choose it. Sometimes the marriage itself is not strong enough. Lots of things go wrong. It is a tremendous amount of work and stress.

But as Cindy notes, decent thoughtful people will - for the most part - grow into the role. That is (to my mind, and I've talked about this with Jen) one of the great good things about parenting. It forces you to grow. I had to learn to be more patient. I had to master my temper. I had to pay more attention to housecleaning. I had to put somebody else first. Most people will master being adults somewhere between 25 and 35. When you have children there is no resting on that competence.

Many of the people I know who are caring for aging parents have at least one sibling who isn't doing a lick except criticizing. They have all of the work of caring for the parents, with extra added resentment for their siblings.

OHHH yeah.