Nonsense, Bev. My father was an alcoholic, and I am the one who was guilty for everything. We can't both be responsible for world peace.

Many of the people I know who are caring for aging parents have at least one sibling who isn't doing a lick except criticizing. They have all of the work of caring for the parents, with extra added resentment for their siblings.

If you actually had the kid, the selfishness is moot. You'd rise to the occasion.

This is, of course, true...we expand to the size of the space we create.

If I were to speak true, I'd have to say my choice is less about fear of weariness and much, much more about exhibiting a single trait passed down through my early experiences.

When I went to the surgeon to be sterilized at 29 the doctor said no way. I said, "let me tell you a little story." 5 minutes later, he signed the papers.

As it happens, I have been a good parent...to a whole lotta people...and while I have had wistful moments, I'm glad things have turned out just as they have.

eta:

Nonsense, Bev. My father was an alcoholic, and I am the one who was guilty for everything. We can't both be responsible for world peace.

Hey wait! That's my job. You kids, offa my guilt.

I'm a de facto only child, and while we've always missed Jenny, I think perhaps I was better off being an only for most of my life. True, the tendency to isolate in a world of my own got amplified and fed because of the circumstances, but I also had a chance to really bond with my mother, who is made of amazing. Plus, other reasons which notsomuch going in to right now. But yeah.

You'd rise to the occasion.

I call bullshit. There are too many bad parents out there to safely make that assumption. And a "Well, Bitches would rise to the occasion" rejoinder gets a "Bullshit" reply from me too. You just don't know. Being a good person doesn't ensure being a good parent, and being a Bitch doesn't either.

(For those keeping score, prayer worked.)

We already learned this from Mac.

I'll also note that I don't think everybody would make a good parent. Obviously not. Many people become parents before they're emotionally or financially ready. Many people back into it rather than choose it. Sometimes the marriage itself is not strong enough. Lots of things go wrong. It is a tremendous amount of work and stress.

But as Cindy notes, decent thoughtful people will - for the most part - grow into the role. That is (to my mind, and I've talked about this with Jen) one of the great good things about parenting. It forces you to grow. I had to learn to be more patient. I had to master my temper. I had to pay more attention to housecleaning. I had to put somebody else first. Most people will master being adults somewhere between 25 and 35. When you have children there is no resting on that competence.

Many of the people I know who are caring for aging parents have at least one sibling who isn't doing a lick except criticizing. They have all of the work of caring for the parents, with extra added resentment for their siblings.

OHHH yeah.

I'm glad I have siblings, if only to have someone else to understand what it was like growing up with my parents, and to look at me now and roll their eyes about said parents...

For bettter or worse, you force yourself to do the necessary things. All of you would. You'd experience moments of resentment, but you would. Period. None of you would abandon your child, or leave them uncomforted.

If you're speaking of Buffistas, then I'll grant you that. I assume you aren't speaking of humans in general.

I'm making a distinction here between folks saying they selfishly want to have their own free time so choose not to have kids

I think that *any* reason that anyone chooses not to have kids -- including because they want their own life, unencumbered by kids -- is absolutely valid and not selfish. Maybe wanting your own free time is an act of self-care.

Just because someone chooses to have kids, and therefore give up some of their free time, doesn't mean they are unselfish. All it means is that they have less free time.

I *do* really resent the idea that wanting a life of one's own is somehow seen as selfish. If I want to determine my own destiny and life path, and that includes not having children because I simply don't want to be encumbered by such, why is that automatically selfish?

Merely by virtue of being a member of the human race, I am not obligated to breed. If I choose not to have kids because I want my own life, and that's a selfish act, tell me: who does it hurt? And don't you DARE say it hurts *me,* because you don't get to make that judgement call about my own life.

No one gets hurt if I choose not to have kids in order to have my own life. But if I have kids out of this guilt that I *should* in order to not appear selfish, then I am going to resent those kids on some level, and it's going to come through in my relationship with them, and THAT will, in fact, hurt someone -- the kids.

Having kids and sacrificing your free time as a result doesn't make anyone a better person than anyone else. It just doesn't.

I call bullshit.

I think you'd rise to the occasion. And I do think most of the people in this discussion would as well.