Many of the people I know who are caring for aging parents have at least one sibling who isn't doing a lick except criticizing. They have all of the work of caring for the parents, with extra added resentment for their siblings.
OHHH yeah.
Please...Wesley...why can't I stay?
Fred ,'A Hole in the World'
Spike's Bitches 34: They're All Slime and Antlers
[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risque (and frisque), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.
Volans - Jan 17, 2007 10:04:56 am PST #1358 of 10001
move out and draw fire
meara - Jan 17, 2007 10:05:13 am PST #1359 of 10001
I'm glad I have siblings, if only to have someone else to understand what it was like growing up with my parents, and to look at me now and roll their eyes about said parents...
Steph L. - Jan 17, 2007 10:05:29 am PST #1360 of 10001
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe
For bettter or worse, you force yourself to do the necessary things. All of you would. You'd experience moments of resentment, but you would. Period. None of you would abandon your child, or leave them uncomforted.
If you're speaking of Buffistas, then I'll grant you that. I assume you aren't speaking of humans in general.
I'm making a distinction here between folks saying they selfishly want to have their own free time so choose not to have kids
I think that *any* reason that anyone chooses not to have kids -- including because they want their own life, unencumbered by kids -- is absolutely valid and not selfish. Maybe wanting your own free time is an act of self-care.
Just because someone chooses to have kids, and therefore give up some of their free time, doesn't mean they are unselfish. All it means is that they have less free time.
I *do* really resent the idea that wanting a life of one's own is somehow seen as selfish. If I want to determine my own destiny and life path, and that includes not having children because I simply don't want to be encumbered by such, why is that automatically selfish?
Merely by virtue of being a member of the human race, I am not obligated to breed. If I choose not to have kids because I want my own life, and that's a selfish act, tell me: who does it hurt? And don't you DARE say it hurts *me,* because you don't get to make that judgement call about my own life.
No one gets hurt if I choose not to have kids in order to have my own life. But if I have kids out of this guilt that I *should* in order to not appear selfish, then I am going to resent those kids on some level, and it's going to come through in my relationship with them, and THAT will, in fact, hurt someone -- the kids.
Having kids and sacrificing your free time as a result doesn't make anyone a better person than anyone else. It just doesn't.
DavidS - Jan 17, 2007 10:05:45 am PST #1361 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
I call bullshit.
I think you'd rise to the occasion. And I do think most of the people in this discussion would as well.
Beverly - Jan 17, 2007 10:07:28 am PST #1362 of 10001
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.
she is the sole support for her aging mother. And, awful as it is to say, her mother is pretty much a selfish, neurotic, passive-aggressive bitch and always has been.
Hello.
I had my kids at 21 and 22(oops), and both pregnancies and deliveries were textbook and very easy. So easy that at one point I gave serious consideration to being a surrogate. Realization of the unavoidable (for me) emotional consequences convinced me that was not a good thing for me to do, although physically, it would have been easy for me.
Emotionally though, I wasn't quite ready to be a parent. Especially not for two so close together. My kids helped raise me. They taught me selflessness, and that being a parent was more important than being liked. But I definitely had some issues, especially with StY. He was intractible, due to undiagnosed at that time ADHD, and I was continually at my wit's end as to how to influence him away from flinging himself off the second floor balcony or poking bobby pins in the light sockets. Repeatedly. It became so wearing that I actually lost it on more than one occasion, and skirted the edge of physical abuse.
I came to my senses when he was about three, hugging me after I'd had a meltdown, patting my back with butterfly hands and telling me, "It's okay, Mommy." I got help.
My being older would have been better. More time between kids (the close interval was not my choice) would have been better. But we dealt with what we'd been given.
Steph L. - Jan 17, 2007 10:08:37 am PST #1363 of 10001
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe
That is (to my mind, and I've talked about this with Jen) one of the great good things about parenting. It forces you to grow.
To quote ita, bullshit. It made *you* grow, David, and that's wonderful. Not all parents experience the same thing. Parenting does *not* force all parents to grow.
beekaytee - Jan 17, 2007 10:08:53 am PST #1364 of 10001
Compassionately intolerant
I *do* really resent the idea that wanting a life of one's own is somehow seen as selfish.
Sadly this ethic...is it Puritan I dunno...is so prevalent, it seeps into nearly every choice someone make to their own benefit. It's crazy how quickly someone who creates a life that suits him or herself gets slapped with "Well, that must be nice."
What is it about self agency that is so threatening to other people?
Cass - Jan 17, 2007 10:09:09 am PST #1365 of 10001
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.
If you actually had the kid, the selfishness is moot. You'd rise to the occasion.I think you'd manage to keep them alive, but I don't know if that always translates into being a good parent.
There are a lot of people with kids who I honestly think have made the world a much worse place by breeding. And more that aren't making it any better, just more highly populated.
And then there are people who I see with their kids and man does it all make sense that they are parents and raising kids and it's lovely.
§ ita § - Jan 17, 2007 10:10:25 am PST #1366 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think you'd rise to the occasion.
I'd take that as a compliment, unearned, but I can barely rise to the occasion of feeding myself. So I can't even accept it. I'm a wreck.
However, and this is key in what I want to say--I don't judge people who may be bad parents unless they're being bad parents. Saying you'd be a crap mom isn't like calling yourself ugly. It doesn't mean people have to rush to fill an esteem void.
As far as I'm concerned, it's just a thing. I don't know if I'd be a good mother or not. It doesn't come into why I don't want to breed. I just don't want to raise kids.
My sister? Probably a crap mother. Does this make her less smart, sparkling, witty, driven, or philanthropic? Not a bit. But she'd probably agree that the driven and the issues and the glayvin? That's what'd get in the way of being a good parent.
But she is a good person. Perhaps even a better person than I am, especially when if one could tally points for constructive impact on others.
DavidS - Jan 17, 2007 10:11:17 am PST #1367 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
*do* really resent the idea that wanting a life of one's own is somehow seen as selfish. If I want to determine my own destiny and life path, and that includes not having children because I simply don't want to be encumbered by such, why is that automatically selfish?
Even if it was selfish (and I'm not saying it is), what's so bad about that?
It's not the greatest cultural value, but it as - as you note - not generally harmful.
Anyway, I don't see it as inherently selfish. Because parenting requires you to be somewhat more selfless, the neutral position gets outflanked and made to look more selfish. But I don't think it is.