ETA: Ok, just to be sure: is that you, Allyson?

Nope.

Oops. I'm very sorry for directing my rant towards you, then. More evidence that making assumptions is a really bad idea, and I should be more careful about it.

My only excuse is that I was just a little bit drunk. But that's a very stupid excuse that should be ignored.

Oh, there was a plot. The plot is that while crated up in the evil government lab, River, who we learn is both psychic and psychotic, heard the thoughts of some Parliamentary official who was on a tour of the lab. We never learn who he was, so from here on in, we'll call him Dick Cheney (or Hillary, for our Swift Boat readers). Apparently, Hillary Cheney was thinking about a Lame Secret Conspiracy in a moment of quiet reflection on the Secret Government Laboratory tour bus.

You know, I knew the plot revolved around River being hunted, and I knew that the movie told us *why* (and I saw the movie), but as soon as I left the theatre, I couldn't remember the *why.* It wasn't a strong enough point to create a plot around.

And I agree with all the points in the review about the characterization within the movie not being strong enough. Too many of the significant plot points -- Wash's death, Book's death, Simon & Kaylee's gratuitous sex, who the hell is Inara? -- require a pre-existing knowledge of the characters from the TV show for those plot points to really have any impact.

Serenity proved that Whedon is for now best suited for television, needing at least five or six hours of screentime to develop characters, a plot... basically anything that would make watching the movie more interesting than sending text messages to my friends two rows over.

I agree with this, too. And there's nothing *wrong* with Joss being more suited to arc-y, episodic stories. The stories he writes, the worlds he creates, need more time than you get in a feature-length film. And that's cool. We need good arc-y, episodic teevee.

My only excuse is that I was just a little bit drunk.

FWIW, I thought Allyson wrote it too. She posted asking if we wanted to read her eye-rolling thoughts on the film, and then later posted a link to a reviewer whose eyes are permanently stuck looking at the inside of her (his?) forehead. Seemed like a reasonable assumption, but we all know what happens when you assume...

Well, I agree with all of it. The platform, with the server, it was hilarious. A friend pointed out to me that Mal is the guy who kicked a random guy into an engine on a whim. But he leaves the trained assasin strapped to a railing by his belt which, you know, take off your pants and take Mal's head off, operative dude.

But if he sees the truth, he'll have a change of heart! Okey dokey.

I've seen movies. I know that it's possible to create characters with some measure of depth, even in a large ensemble cast.

And the Kool Aid thing? PLEASE! I was reading the comments at Whedonesque after the Popgurls review was posted.

It was a positive review overall, that pointed out some flaws but said it was enjoyable.

She was skewered at Whedonesque "No offense, but she seems like a high maintenance kind of gal."

Huzzuh? In fact, even positive reviews, if they point out any flaw, are greeted with disdain, and insult the reviewer. OTOH, reviews written by 12-year-olds on LJ that just gush, those are like, Pulitzer material.

Now, this is not my experience so much at Buffistas. It happens sometimes, but there's a general sort acceptance that some of us are not going to agree. We can have the debate, at least.

And I've found that few fans have made a peep about the retcon with Simon, the ridiculously stupid plot, lack of theme, and crap character development.

If the pleasure at seeing the characters onscreen overshadows those things, that's reasonable, I think. If you love cheesey scifi, then it's probably reasonable to love this.

I just wanted a really good story, and I got poo.

Well, I agree with all of it. The platform, with the server, it was hilarious. A friend pointed out to me that Mal is the guy who kicked a random guy into an engine on a whim. But he leaves the trained assasin strapped to a railing by his belt which, you know, take off your pants and take Mal's head off, operative dude.

When Mal left him there, he was pretty fucked up. I don't think he was going anywhere, regardless. To me, Mal was more strapping him down to make sure he watched the thing than to prevent him from following or attacking again.

And I've found that few fans have made a peep about the retcon with Simon, the ridiculously stupid plot, lack of theme, and crap character development.

I've griped several times about the Simon retcon. (Joss explained it an interview that he originally stayed true to the series, but it wasn't very engaging to have a bunch of people rescue River and then we never see them again, so he changed it. I'm still not happy with it, but it makes sense and I understand some concessions had to be made to open the film up to a first-time audience.)

I have no issues with the plot and I thought the theme of the importance of believing in something was pretty clearly stated, especially since I picked up on it and I suck at identifying themes.

As for character development, I can't judge that because I can't separate my knowledge of the characters from the show from those in the movie.

You got what you expected, though, right? I mean, you don't like Joss's writing, IIRC.

I guess what sticks is variable. Like that's a revelation. Still, The Operative killing the doctor at the start drove it home for me that the mindreading River might have done made her a liability. It wasn't that she knew about Miranda. They didn't know what. She was just too high risk.

It wasn't that she knew about Miranda. They didn't know what. She was just too high risk.

Right. The Alliance had no idea what she knew. All they knew was they had an escaped psychic who had been in the presence of numerous government bigshots with lots of hush-hush information in their brains.

I just don't think I'm as sure of my opinions as you are Allyson. I was massively conflicted leaving the cinema. There were parts that I really enjoyed, and parts that I didn't so much, but I was worried that the only reason I didn't like those parts was because I loved the show so much and they weren't like the show at all.

I didn't think it was a 'ridiculously stupid plot' either, though again I had problems with it. I thought it was a lot more sci-fi than the show had ever dared to be. So it didn't fit in my head with my vision of the show, which I wasn't happy about (along with the whole sci-fi blue lighting thing). I think I'll have to watch it again to try and get a better sense of it as a movie, entirely seperate from what preceded it, but I'd trust the opinions of people who hadn't ever seen the show a lot more on that one.

I disliked Serenity more than I thought I would. I expected to have issues with it but was surprised by how many issues I had. Especially the dialogue. There was some funny lines, yes, but there were a lot of clunkers. Far more than I expected from Joss. Because, while he sometimes likes to throw out the story for the sake of a better story, he usually brings the good talky.

I do think that Serenity could have been trimmed down and made into a much better one hour episode.

I did want to sign it "Dear Joss, please stop believing your own press," but I didn't want to harsh anyone's mellow.

HA. That ship, my friend, has already sailed.

I mean, you don't like Joss's writing, IIRC.

That's Strega. I did have some low expectations going in, as you know, I didn't expect to be appalled at the quality of the storytelling.

I remember feeling like I wished I hadn't gone. I realized that I wanted to be there purely for ridiculously lame ego reasons, weeks ago, and I shouldn't have gone.