Given that this is the spoilers thread, you could explain Keith's non-retcon for us here....
Wash: Don't fall asleep now. Sleepiness is weakness of character. Ask anyone. You're acting captain. Know what happens you fall asleep now? Zoe: Jayne slits my throat, and takes over. Wash: That's right. Zoe: And we can't stop it.
'Shindig'
Firefly Spoilers
Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.
Jon B. - Sep 04, 2005 6:23:17 am PDT #1198 of 1424
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!
Nutty - Sep 04, 2005 1:08:03 pm PDT #1199 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."
Agreed, that a Spoilers thread deserves some spoilers.
I talked to Keith in January (Boskone), and he told me he'd written the novelization then, and I forgot. He did say it was wicked juicy and he enjoyed writing it very much, and while I am mentioning it I might as well report to you all that Keith is a long-haired, man-size muppet.
Kiba Rika - Sep 04, 2005 2:56:31 pm PDT #1200 of 1424
I may have to seize the cat.
Given that this is the spoilers thread, you could explain Keith's non-retcon for us here....
You make a good point. It doesn't quite fix it, but it's a good enough explanation.
From the episode Serenity:
Then I was contacted by some men, some underground movement. They-they said she was in danger, that-that the government was... playing with her brain. If I funded them they could sneak her out in cryo. Get her to Persephone, and from there, I could take her... wherever.
And then, of course, in the movie, we see him break her out himself. So, in the novelization, he funds these people, and they arrange everything for him. All he has to do is go in and get her. They provide him with all the objects he needs, transportation, costume, fake retinal scans, etc. It isn't perfect, but it at least makes it make sense to me that he would say the above when it was he that broke her out.
I highly recommend the novelization. It's like watching the movie again, but with new juicy bits because of the third-person omniscient perspective.
Mr. Broom - Sep 04, 2005 3:55:21 pm PDT #1201 of 1424
"When I look at people that I would like to feel have been a mentor or an inspiring kind of archetype of what I'd love to see my career eventually be mentioned as a footnote for in the same paragraph, it would be, like, Bowie." ~Trent Reznor
The hangup everyone is going to have is "If I funded them they could sneak her out in cryo." One pronoun and it's a retcon? Hard to say.
Matt the Bruins fan - Sep 04, 2005 5:21:53 pm PDT #1202 of 1424
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
It took more than Simon to carry around that giant cryo tank in "Serenity," didn't it?
Kalshane - Sep 04, 2005 7:18:27 pm PDT #1203 of 1424
GS: If you had to choose between kicking evil in the head or the behind, which would you choose, and why?
Minsc: I'm not sure I understand the question. I have two feet, do I not? You do not take a small plate when the feast of evil welcomes seconds.
But if she's awake and active when he breaks her out, why bother putting her into Cryo in the first place? Wouldn't it be easier and less conspicuous to not have to cart a humongous box around?
Simon's behavior in "Serenity" the episode, seems very much like he's not aware there's a warrant for his arrest yet. He's using his real name, openly discussing where he used to work and what he used to do. If he had broken into an Alliance facility and knowingly ended up with his face on their security monitors, I think he would have tried to be a little more low-profile.
I'm also still bugged by the fact that I just can't see early Simon pulling off that kind of deception. But that could just be me.
Mr. Broom - Sep 04, 2005 10:07:58 pm PDT #1204 of 1424
"When I look at people that I would like to feel have been a mentor or an inspiring kind of archetype of what I'd love to see my career eventually be mentioned as a footnote for in the same paragraph, it would be, like, Bowie." ~Trent Reznor
He's got to have known there was a warrant out. Getting his sister out of a government facility isn't going to happen without someone branding him an outlaw for it. Otherwise it'd be a matter of signing for her and thank you, good day. I'd say he uses his real name and credentials in "Serenity" the episode because he's on a mid-bulk transport ship on his way to the outer rings, with no reason to believe he has to deceive anyone directly right this moment.
As for the deception, I see it as being entirely in keeping with his character, even in regard to "Serenity" the episode. As long as you appear to be in a station whose particulars would not be known to the people around you and as long as you maintain that bearing, people won't ask questions. Basically, people will obey anyone who appears uppity enough. It's proven true in real life, so I have no problem with Simon using it to his advantage. If you act like what you are, you don't have to do any further acting.
Kiba Rika - Sep 05, 2005 2:41:15 am PDT #1205 of 1424
I may have to seize the cat.
But if she's awake and active when he breaks her out, why bother putting her into Cryo in the first place? Wouldn't it be easier and less conspicuous to not have to cart a humongous box around?
According to the novelization, since he was posing as an inspector he had to fly an inspector's ship. And an inspector's ship has room for one person. And it has a cryo chamber. This was "the only place for River" on the ship. Also, it made it easy for him to wander about Persephone looking for a boat, because doctor with big box is less sketchy than doctor with crazy girl, apparently.
It's not a perfect explanation, but it eases my mind some. My fanwank for the deception (since we saw Simon being so bad at it in Jaynestown but so good at it in Ariel) is that a) the people he funded coached him on how to behave and b) Simon is much more comfortable in an academic or medical facility than in mudpits.
I can believe that Simon, being rather inexperienced in successful attempts to break people out, would believe and obey anything the people from the organization helping him get River out told him, but might not consider it farther than that and thus not do things they thought obvious - like, for example, use a fake name on Persephone.
Cass - Sep 05, 2005 10:05:13 am PDT #1206 of 1424
Bob's learned to live with tragedy, but he knows that this tragedy is one that won't ever leave him or get better.
It's not a perfect explanation, but it eases my mind some.Thanks for posting this, Kiba. It's not a perfect explantion, true. But since the show said what show said, and then movie said what the movie said, having some way to reconcile them together is nice.
Gandalfe - Sep 05, 2005 12:30:33 pm PDT #1207 of 1424
The generation that could change the world is still looking for its car keys.
My fanwank for the deception (since we saw Simon being so bad at it in Jaynestown but so good at it in Ariel) is that a) the people he funded coached him on how to behave and b) Simon is much more comfortable in an academic or medical facility than in mudpits.
Plus, the deception in Jaynestown was sprung on him, and was not his idea whatsoever.