She didn't even touch her pumpkin. It's a freak with no face.

Willow ,'Help'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


Frankenbuddha - Jul 11, 2005 5:28:16 am PDT #1146 of 1424
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

In other words, Joss's total willingness to retcon himself isn't a bug; it's a feature.

Gift with purchase?


tianxiaode - Jul 11, 2005 5:49:42 am PDT #1147 of 1424
Adrian Pasdar: bringing hot (and ambiguously gay) to a new level since Top Gun.

Or the simplest explanation is that Simon knew very well what the crew of Serenity would think of him, and he decided to play up the helpless angle a bit to gain sympathy, and lied in the pilot.


Gris - Jul 11, 2005 5:53:18 am PDT #1148 of 1424
Hey. New board.

I don't believe it. His bumbling helplessness was far too realistic. Plus, anybody that could be that cool hitting the floor with the neat paralysis thingy he had shouldn't be so uselessly scared with a gun, methinks.


Nutty - Jul 11, 2005 6:05:58 am PDT #1149 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

The nice part about it being a retcon is that we get to have our cake (exciting action sequence! New weapons!) and eat it too (the whole point of the original escape story being that Simon doesn't actually know till the box is opened whether his sister has been rescued or not).

On the one hand, active rescue, Simon being assertive, River assisting her own escape; on the other, passive rescue, that richness of whole other characters we never meet who have motivations, and that sick fear of throwing away everything on the mere chance of saving his family. Two very different interpretations, both of which can, at times, seem to fit the character we meet on the screen.

Although, intellectually, I find retconning sloppy and annoying, sometimes it is very emotionally satisfying to have conflicting motivations/explanations/thought-processes, both of which are plausible and neither of which is exclusive. Which, come to think, is what the Jossverses are all about, right? Emotional arc supersedes logic when necessary.


Kiba Rika - Jul 11, 2005 6:26:49 am PDT #1150 of 1424
I may have to seize the cat.

Emotional arc supersedes logic when necessary.

Bingo.

...One of my big problems with the Simon maybe-a-retcon is that they told him exactly what they had done to River. They said stuff about the "stripping process." Which means that "Ariel," and any other time spent figuring out what was wrong with River, becomes unnecessary. That's what bugs me more than the did-he-or-didn't-he? in terms of who was the active agent in River's escape.


Mr. Broom - Jul 11, 2005 8:01:52 am PDT #1151 of 1424
"When I look at people that I would like to feel have been a mentor or an inspiring kind of archetype of what I'd love to see my career eventually be mentioned as a footnote for in the same paragraph, it would be, like, Bowie." ~Trent Reznor

Not exactly. Simon doesn't necessarily know what "the stripping process" actually means. He's a trauma surgeon, not a brain surgeon, so the procedure could easily be entirely unfamiliar to him. It's very possible he's just playing along, pretending he knows exactly what the man's talking about until he knocks everyone out and rescues her. He may have his theories about what the man's words mean, but since they regard the brain, which is frighteningly complex, theories can be dangerously unhelpful without hard data.


Barry Woodward - Jul 11, 2005 8:31:00 am PDT #1152 of 1424
I fought the law and I won!

And Angel was Spike's sire. Uh-huh.
He was. Any vampire in your blood lineage above you is your sire. So the Master, Darla, Angel and Drusilla are all Spike's sires.


Dana - Jul 11, 2005 8:33:04 am PDT #1153 of 1424
"I'm useless alone." // "We're all useless alone. It's a good thing you're not alone."

So the Master, Darla, Angel and Drusilla are all Spike's sires.

Yeah, that's the retcon.


Frankenbuddha - Jul 11, 2005 8:35:32 am PDT #1154 of 1424
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

He was. Any vampire in your blood lineage above you is your sire. So the Master, Darla, Angel and Drusilla are all Spike's sires.

And if you believe that was what the writers thought Spike meant in School Hard, I've got some swamp land in Florida and a bridge you might be interested in purchasing.


Lee - Jul 11, 2005 8:35:48 am PDT #1155 of 1424
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

Plus, Drusilla may have turned Spike, but Angel(us) turned him into a monster.

Poor wittle Spikewikey.