that would have totally Jossed the lesson we learned in season five's Forever

Cindy, can you explain?

Since that would have totally Jossed the lesson we learned in season five's Forever, and again with Buffy's horrific depression in season 6? I totally buy it.

Oh my God I would have thrown things at the screen.

that would have totally Jossed the lesson we learned in season five's Forever

Cindy, can you explain?

Well, I might be stretching the definition of jossing (if Plei comes by, maybe she can set it straight). It's usually more used for canon, like when a flashback kind of fouls up what we've been learning in real time for seasons upon seasons. (I think an example of jossing might be Spike first calling Angel his sire in School Hard, and then we later learn that Dru sired him.)

But in case of the lesson, Forever was the episode that followed The Body, which dealt with the immediate aftermath of Joyce's death. In Forever, Buffy & co buried Joyce, but then Dawn went poking into Willow & Tara's magic books (with help from Willow), in search of a resurrection spell. The point of the episode (did you see it? I don't want to tell you the whole story if you don't need it) was that there are things you don't meddle in, death (and other natural occurances) being the main one.

Then, in season 6, a big part of Buffy's depression was because she had been ripped out of heaven, and brought back to life on the hellmouth. Who can blame her. At the end of season 6, when Warren shot Tara, Willow tried imporing the god Osirus to bring Tara back, but he refused, because she didn't die by supernatural means.

Now I suppose that if Buffy's would-be wish was truly reality altering, she could wish Tara had never been shot, or that Tara had not died from the bullet. But even then, since we had the episode The Wish, and our characters had so much bad experience with wishes (with Halfrek, etc.) I'm having a hard time imagining how bringing Tara back wouldn't have screwed with something, either one of the morals of the series as a whole, or the permanence of non-supernatural deaths, etc.

I think it would have been touching, but I think Joss is lucky Amber refused him for CwDP, since that refusal seems somehow to be tied to her not being brought back later, to resurrect Tara.

It's usually more used for canon, like when a flashback kind of fouls up what we've been learning in real time for seasons upon seasons.

Jossing is more when fanon (usually based on strong implications in the text) gets overwritten by a new story which lays out what really happened in a particular past time period. For example, many fan fics had been written about the era of Angel/Darla & Spike/Dru rampaging together. "Fool For Love" jossed them by nailing down specifically what happened when. They went from being stories "in canon" to AU.

Another kind of jossing happened with the retcon about who was Spike's sire. At first Spike called Angel his sire, but then later it was revealed that actually Dru sired him. Much hand waving about "a line of siring" but that was a straight up retcon.

Jossing is more when fanon (usually based on strong implications in the text) gets overwritten by a new story which lays out what really happened in a particular past time period.

Oh, David is right. Thanks, Hec. I had my terms mangled. Still, it would have screwed things up, or Joss would have jossed himself, I guess is how I should have said it.

Still, it would have screwed things up, or Joss would have jossed himself, I guess is how I should have said it.

That's actually how he described it when "Chosen" contradicted the continuity of Fray.

I was thinking of Chosen and Fray after I posted that. I didn't remember joss saying he jossed himself, though. I think I just remember Plei saying it, and that could have been part of my problem with the definition. Plei writes fic I would swear was canon, if only I could find the right tape.

Was it ever established what use the Excalibraxe would have been to Caleb and the First Evil had Buffy not taken it away?

I can't remember. Wasn't it just that they didn't want Buffy to have it?

Was it ever established what use the Excalibraxe would have been to Caleb and the First Evil had Buffy not taken it away?

Good for chopping.