I'm not sure what all this means in regards to Spike's crime and how it was subsequently not dealt with at all, except that this was hardly the first time rape was used as a plot device to connote the Worst of the Worst...along with smoking.

Maybe it means their device piles are alphabetized. The asspull pile is just to the right of the anvils.

Don't know what it means either. But up until the AR, it was not done in such a way it had to be dealt with as a long term issue. I mean having Spike try to rape Buffy, and then having her get over it enough to trust him and be attracted to him - that really required a lot more than they gave it to get from point A to B.

I tend to agree with those who think it would have been better to have him attempt to vamp her. Yes it would have been out of character where the AR was completely in character for Spike. (Mind you I think it could have been explained by rage leading to total reversion to slavering irrational non-verbal beast - that vamp side totallly overcoming the man.) But I think the reactions,, the seeking of a soul, the recovery of trust would have rung much more true. Not that vamping is actually better than rape, but that converting someone to vampire is not something that can actually be done, and thus the forgiveness and continued attraction and so forth would have been emotionally easier for the audience. In short, it would not actually have made more sense, but it would have been better story telling.

(Mind you I think it could have been explained by rage leading to total reversion to slavering irrational non-verbal beast - that vamp side totallly overcoming the man.)

Yes to this, and just a changed line or two from Spike, could have served that. You know, the addition of something like his other comments about her belonging in the dark, or knowing she has darkness in her, just like he does, would have done it.

I agree with Hec that Spike wouldn't have been happy with a vamped Buffy. I don't necessarily buy that Spike would have made that connection, consciously. Like our other verse character, he learns best, the hard way. I think in season 5, he learned he needed the whole Buffy, not just little Buffy-sunshine, with the Buffy-bot storyline. I think in season 6, he learned he needed the whole Buffy, when he was dissatisfied that she was only coming to him for sex.

I do agree he'd have been miserable with Buffy as a vampire. But it's pretty well established that Spike makes great plans, then gets bored and acts on impulse, abandoning his plan. He was fed up enough with her in Normal Again, that I think one or two well-placed lines in Seeing Red could have sold us on him trying to bite/sire her, without weaking her character (and hobbling the writers so) for season 7.

I just don't see the vamping at all. That would've struck me as totally false. Completely gutless story telling after what they'd done in S6. I would have been very disappointed. It had to be about sex.

Though I always wondered why they never used that narrative line - they never really vamped a regular character. It would've been intense if Jenny Calendar had been vamped. Plus Sexy! I think that storyline worked fine as it was. But there were a lot of secondary characters where it still would've packed a punch. All we got was Zombie!Forrester.

I think it would be interesting to see a slayer vamped, and now that there are so many to choose from it doesn't have to be a major character. I want to know what it would mean in terms of strength and power.

We do have the example of Buffy herself from "Nightmares," although that was a unique situation and Buffy remained partially herself (complete with soul) in addition to getting the effects of vampirism.

It seems to me that with the Slayer power departing in favor of a new Chosen One, the resultant vampire would be just like any other new fledgeling—i.e., a significant step down in raw power from what the girl was used to. Maybe with the slight advantage of already having a fair bit of combat training and experience, and the major one of knowing about her former Watcher and his peers. As someone else said before, a Watcher's last official duty with regard to his charge is probably making sure she doesn't rise as a vampire.

We do have the example of Buffy herself from "Nightmares,"

True.

Buffy remained partially herself (complete with soul) in addition to getting the effects of vampirism.

And, we didn't really get a chance to see if she was even stronger, ect.

with the Slayer power departing in favor of a new Chosen One, the resultant vampire would be just like any other new fledgeling

But the rules have changed now. All of the potentials are now Slayers so the Slayer power is no longer being passed from one girl to the next. Therefore, a slayervampire might just have the powers and abilities of both.

with the Slayer power departing in favor of a new Chosen One

Buffy's didn't when she died the first two times, though, so there's little reason to assume a law of conservation of Slayerhood.

Buffy's didn't when she died the first two times, though, so there's little reason to assume a law of conservation of Slayerhood.

Yeah, but both times she returned as Buffy, not as a demon wearing a Buffy suit. Actually, after her first death she returned amped up in power and possessed of new confidence and certainty of her mission.

Which worked so much better with the early assumption that her destiny as the Chosen One was divine in nature (and thus strengthened by a brief brush with the afterlife/Hero's journey into the Underworld) rather than something randomly bestowed by a swirly demonic cloud.

I always felt that she came back souless - not actually - but dispirited and not happy about it. When viewed from that 'more like Faith' perspective, I'd like to see some of those eps reshot with a tad more leather.

Edited to add: Buffy leather , that is.