(Frank, I had edited in a way that you quoted something I took out, but I put it back)

But she then proposed it without waiting for an answer, so I think my point (and caveat) stands.

So does what Hec said.

In any event, aside from who proposed the thread or seconded it, it did not come from an impulse to have a private clubhouse for SPN. It came as a response to objections about how much space SPN took up in BS.

I think that falls under my caveat, Lee.

Sorry, I'm getting snippy. Time for bed....

Okay, I do have a pony in this race, and it's you. My peeps. All of you.

I'm really saddened that Plei, Bev, Lee, Cass and juliana (among others, it's get's hazy around the edges..) feel like their squee and flail is being shown the door and handed its hat.

It makes me sad because even though I did not share any of this squee and flail, it made me really, really, really happy to know it was going on. I would see the words and it would make me smile, even though I only caught bits of it, usually on my live journal flist.

I had no idea, until just yesterday, that there was a volume-of-squee issue in Boxed Set. But if I was a regular poster in BS, I could just as easily have been Frank or anybody else who has contributed to any feelings of shown-door-handed-hat-ness over the last blah number of days/weeks/months this has been building up.

I really hate that we have to stop talking about this tomorrow, because I think we've gotten closer to the heart of the issues that always seem to be lurking around here and B'cracy than we ever have before.

This is what I meant last night about "beholden to our past." It feels like almost the entire thread structure and creation approach is in place because of how things happened when we were on TT, and then WX after that. And all the threads that were sort of grandfathered in. And then all kinds of other stuff that happened once the Phoenix rose.

From where I'm sitting, that structure is showing some real wear at the seams. People who love each other are making some of the very people they love (who love those same people right back) feel very unloved and unwelcome, for doing one of the very things the first group of people love them for in the first place. Even if maybe they just want to do something else, and would like to find a way to do that.

I think there is an amicable solution to this problem, and I think it's to talk about how we want to talk about things.

Maybe the solution isn't creating single show threads for every show that gets a certain volume, maybe the solution is to create a place for Buffistas that want to talk about shows (or whatever) in a cross-pollenating, media-fannish way, and a space for others to talk about shows they want to talk about, with the people they want to talk about them with, but only when they've caught up on Tivo, without risk of getting spoiled for other shows they haven't caught up on or being tossed in a party room where the noise level all around is so much that they feel like they can't get a word in edgewise.

No, I don't know how to do any of that without basically creating a couple of bucket threads of odd, poorly defined scope, and a bunch of single show threads, but maybe if we all sat down and talked about it, and thought about it, we could figure it out.

It feels like a problem that keeps cropping up (in various odd guises, with different people involved at different stages), but it also feels like a problem that can only achieve a lasting solution by coming at it sideways. And instead of doing that, we all take a frontal approach and the problem only gets stuffed back into its hidey-hole to await its next opportunity to leap out at us.

::loves Sean::

I'll go wherever the SPN discussion goes, and also stay in Boxed Set because I'm a ginormous fannish crackwhore. I'm not upset by any of this except for the part where other people are upset, if that makes sense.

I have sensed some exasperation for a while now whenever we get all Supernatural Likes Carrots.

Shrift speaks for me. I love SPN, I love talking SPN with Buffistas, because it's a different dynamic than on LJ. And if we have our own thread I will continue to talk SPN with Buffistas, and that makes me happy. I will continue to read Boxed Set because I'm a fannish crackhore I'm a media fan.

I haven't taken offense at any of the conversation, and it's been interesting to see the way Nutty tied Boxed Set to media fandom, because while she's right, it's not a connection I would have made. Boxed Set sort of is the home for the folks who participate in media fandom in that kind of classic way--the picspam/vid/fanfic multi-fandom kind of way, that is not specifically a Buffista thing. I mean, it's a thing that some Buffistas do, but only a subset of us, and we engage in fandom outside of B.org in a way that other Buffistas don't.

Anyway, anything the community decides is good with me. I'm sure Boxed Set will survive, esp. with stuff like The Sarah Connor Chronicles coming up (SCC?) this fall.

Sean is wise. And made my allergies act up just a little, because this:

Okay, I do have a pony in this race, and it's you. My peeps. All of you.

Is what I've been trying and failing and rambling on and on and then erasing and not posting because I'm afraid whatever I say is going to get everyone on all sides more upset for DAYS now.

I'm with Teppy on the Sean love. I DON'T have a solution. I've been wrapping my brain around it, and every proposal that sounds good to me has people I'd love to discuss TV with saying "That's NEVER going to work for me." And that we keep coming up with band-aid solutions that sorta work for some of the people some of the time. And that I feel like I may have frelled up one of the TV discussion threads where at least some of the people had a place that DID (as opposed to sorta) work for them (whether or not it was inevitable, I pulled to trigger or at least cocked the gun or loaded the bullet or something).

Can I love on Sean just a little, too? 'Cause man, what he said. From another point on the compass of fannishness, but the exact same sentiment, and thanks for expressing it, Sean.

Frank, please. Stoppit. If it wasn't this, it would have been something else. This discussion has been a long time a-comin' and was--still is--necessary. You aren't to blame for anything. We should probably thank you, once the bruises fade a little. Sorry! (not) SPN humor!

Oh my, JohnSweden, may I please tag? I'm in love with this sentence.

Of course! ::scuffs toe ::

The way this discussion has come around, from where it started, to here, with everyone affirming that the most important thing is the people we care about, puts a lump in my throat. This really is a wonderful community.