Well, I know at least one person who could sign up as Fuckface. But he wouldn't.

Hm. I agree with ND that it went too quickly into LB. Is there any way to move something back to B'crazy after it's been in LB? (I mean, is there a precedent.) Maybe Betsy could withdraw her proposal, we go back to B'crazy and hash it out for a few hundred more posts (I'm serious, not being snarky) and then come back to LB if that was what we decided?

Personally, I don't see the value of debating the issue in Bureaucracy for a few days and then bringing it here. Here at least there is a goal to the discussion. Not to mention a time limit.

But for some of us we don't think that the vote is a suitable goal for this, and it's been a big shadow over top of it during the whole discussion.

As Robin said upthread-- the vote is not so that we can be Congress and have all sorts of Bureacrazy... it is really a poll so that we can see how everyone feels. The problem with being a multi-timezone board with users who frequent the board in varying rates is that it is hard to tell whether a consensus has been reached or whether it is just a consensus of those people who have a) had the stamina to make it through the discussion and/or b) happen to be on the board all the time. It is not so much different than consensus as a way to see what the consensus really is. Otherwise someone (and who that someone is I do not knoow, because we do not have a moderator or owner) has to decide what that consensus is. And I think that puts to big a responsibility on the shoulders of ita adn Jon, who will be making the changes, if any, we the Buffistas, deem necessary.

I say-- don't think of this a a presidential election, but more a "where do we want to order takeout from" kind of thing.

I guess I don't see the problem with voting No if it comes to a vote, and therefore don't understand the reason why the mere idea of a vote is so upsetting. Forgive me. Besides, I'm assuming that, if it does come to a vote, it won't pass. Hence my not understanding why there's still so much A) heat, and B) resistance to articulating what, precisely, is on the table at the moment.

Personally, I think we should bring it to a vote if and only if we are considering adding a section to the etiquette page. And then it should be a simple Yes/No proposal.

I think the resistance to a vote is coming from a reaction to the quick consensus that was reached earlier. So maybe the people that have been here since the beginning should lay back and let the ones who just got here catch up?

FWIW I am pro codifying the profile-identification of csockpuppets to regular user IDs, and I don't much care if we vote or just consense*. I think the ID suggestion is a good compromise between banning SPs and doing nothing, and it should be put in some form of rules/etiquette so that people who didn't read this discussion will know that it's something we'd like them to do.

• unless it's in our rules that changes to the rules need voting, in which case I say we should follow the rules and vote.

Finally, love how apropos my tagline is.

Hey, no fair making me laugh at myself.

What can I say, it's a classic line. Hee. I might have milked it for all it's worth, though (pun totally intended).

Now tempted to change my tag to "the cockpuppet formerly known as Fuckface".

I think the resistance to a vote is coming from a reaction to the quick consensus that was reached earlier. So maybe the people that have been here since the beginning should lay back and let the ones who just got here catch up?

If that's a request to butt out now, I will, but FTR I was one of the latecomers and not part of the initial consensus.

And if they do, and if they're asked to identify themselves and refuse, then that moves them at least into the category of rude behavior, which is dealt with in a number of ways, both formal and informal. There's all kinds of behavior that might not be specifically mandated or prohibited but in practice are community norms. I'd rather see us build this into those norms than make it a Rule.

I'm nodding in agreement with brenda here.

how do you see handling refusal to ID? It is rude? It'll just a a thing we all yelled about for days but decided not to write down anywhere else? Is that fair to newcomers?

This is how I'd expect it would be handled from here on out: Buffy's Leather Pants show up and start posting. People either laugh, or roll their eyes and scroll. People who want to know who's wearing the pants go and check the profile. If there's no ID, someone says, "Hey, Leather Pants, can you ID yourself in your profile? Generally that's how we do things around here." Leather Pants either says "Oops, sorry, I didn't know" and makes the change, or says "WTF? Clearly I am Buffy's Leather Pants and no one else, ha ha ha!"

There's no way to know here if Leather Pants is someone who was privy to this conversation, so IMO it's best to proceed as though they weren't, giving them the benefit of the doubt. So someone else says "No, really, please ID yourself. A lot of us consider it rude if you don't." After that, if the person still isn't forthcoming with an ID, it seems clear to me that it's not someone who's interested in maintaining a good relationship with the community. Then I think it's appropriate to take it to Bureaucracy and say "This person is being rude and I'd like them to be warned."

That being said, I know that there are people here who would strongly oppose warning someone for that kind of behavior. However, I think it's pretty unlikely that we'd have a situation like that to begin with; I think (well, I hope) that 19 times out of 20 the person would say "oops, sorry" and provide an ID. So what I'm wondering is whether or not we could hold off on deciding what to do about a recalcitrant sockpuppet* until such a situation actually arises. In other words, I'm not overly fond of codifying the "ID yourself" rule because I doubt that it will really be necessary. t /shiny-eyed optimist

*Live at the Paradise! The Recalcitrant Sockpuppets!