I think the resistance to a vote is coming from a reaction to the quick consensus that was reached earlier. So maybe the people that have been here since the beginning should lay back and let the ones who just got here catch up?

If that's a request to butt out now, I will, but FTR I was one of the latecomers and not part of the initial consensus.

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And if they do, and if they're asked to identify themselves and refuse, then that moves them at least into the category of rude behavior, which is dealt with in a number of ways, both formal and informal. There's all kinds of behavior that might not be specifically mandated or prohibited but in practice are community norms. I'd rather see us build this into those norms than make it a Rule.

I'm nodding in agreement with brenda here.

how do you see handling refusal to ID? It is rude? It'll just a a thing we all yelled about for days but decided not to write down anywhere else? Is that fair to newcomers?

This is how I'd expect it would be handled from here on out: Buffy's Leather Pants show up and start posting. People either laugh, or roll their eyes and scroll. People who want to know who's wearing the pants go and check the profile. If there's no ID, someone says, "Hey, Leather Pants, can you ID yourself in your profile? Generally that's how we do things around here." Leather Pants either says "Oops, sorry, I didn't know" and makes the change, or says "WTF? Clearly I am Buffy's Leather Pants and no one else, ha ha ha!"

There's no way to know here if Leather Pants is someone who was privy to this conversation, so IMO it's best to proceed as though they weren't, giving them the benefit of the doubt. So someone else says "No, really, please ID yourself. A lot of us consider it rude if you don't." After that, if the person still isn't forthcoming with an ID, it seems clear to me that it's not someone who's interested in maintaining a good relationship with the community. Then I think it's appropriate to take it to Bureaucracy and say "This person is being rude and I'd like them to be warned."

That being said, I know that there are people here who would strongly oppose warning someone for that kind of behavior. However, I think it's pretty unlikely that we'd have a situation like that to begin with; I think (well, I hope) that 19 times out of 20 the person would say "oops, sorry" and provide an ID. So what I'm wondering is whether or not we could hold off on deciding what to do about a recalcitrant sockpuppet* until such a situation actually arises. In other words, I'm not overly fond of codifying the "ID yourself" rule because I doubt that it will really be necessary. t /shiny-eyed optimist

*Live at the Paradise! The Recalcitrant Sockpuppets!

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Also,

Suppose someone wanted advice on a situation, but didn't want to 'fess up to being in the particular situation. Uses a different name, talks it out, gets some advice, no harm no foul, goes back to being whoever. Is that a huge problem?

See, I think this is actually a different issue from sockpuppeting. We have had, and probably will have, situations like this, and I don't hear anyone saying that they were offended or upset or annoyed by them.

I don't want the term Sock Puppets in there anywhere. If we are going to add the verbage I just want to have it very matter of fact and dealing with users that maintain multiple logins.

Except that, as Denise mentioned above, there's a difference between me posting as Buffy's Leather Pants--in the Persona of the Pants--and Allyson using her LJ name to post gossip she doesn't want linked to her official fandom profile. So I agree that "Sockpuppet" might not be the best term to use, but I don't know what the best way to distinguish between those two types of multiple login situations in official language would be.

Sorry to post and run, but I'm off to build a chicken coop. Have a lovely Saturday, everyone.

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I don't have much to add at this point, but will note that Kate and brenda are doing a good job of articulating my perspective.

I think everybody felt pleasantly refreshed at the notion we could come to a quick and easy consensus on this issue without a vote. Now, that seems premature. As Sophia notes, the vote itself is a way to get a more accurate consensus (less bullshitty), so I won't hang on to happy consensus land.

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And I think that puts to big a responsibility on the shoulders of ita adn Jon, who will be making the changes, if any, we the Buffistas, deem necessary.

Thanks Sophia, but I don't feel burdened in the least. If all we're doing is updating the Etiquette page or FAQ, then it won't take more than a few minutes to implement.

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I just don't think we can make changes to the documents that say how we want people to act without voting on it.

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Thanks Sophia, but I don't feel burdened in the least. If all we're doing is updating the Etiquette page or FAQ, then it won't take more than a few minutes to implement.

Just thinking of you... But what I really meant to articulate was that you or ita need to decide if we have reached a consensus before you post anything. That is what the vote does-- makes the consensus clear.

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I am coming late to the conversation but I wanted to add my views, or at least note where I stand on the issue.

The sockpuppets (wow, I typoed that more times than I care to admit before getting it right.) often amuse me. And sometimes they can grate. Which makes them a lot like the rest of the posters we have.

strongly encouraging people who create jokey sock puppets to identify themselves in the profile of said sock puppet

This. I wouldn't always look, but I already go to profiles to see if there is a disclaimer, ownership or clue there when a new name strikes me as a SP.

I don't want the term Sock Puppets in there anywhere. If we are going to add the verbage I just want to have it very matter of fact and dealing with users that maintain multiple logins.

And this.

I don't personally need to vote on this if we can consense, but I am certainly willing to if the group wants/needs it.

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I can't withdraw the proposal until four days after I made it. Rest assured, I'm counting the hours.

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It's your proposal; you can withdraw it at any time. I lost count -- when would the vote start if there is one? I'd need to set up the ballot.

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