I've seen many posts in here about how people don't see how x, y, or z can be a spoiler. Let me state now, for the record, you don't have have to see how I see x, y, and/or z as spoilers, just take me at my word that I do. Take Trudy at her word that she does. Take Katie and Liese at their words. And believe us when we say that it lessens our enjoyment of the show.

I presented my proposal as a way to allow the spoiled to discuss the BCS (which, now, I read may be 2 BCS, and that's great, because I only know one, and there is now no conceivable way that I can take part in discussion in any NAFDA thread if this vote goes Yay) not because I think it's the major issue, but because it is the most time sensitive issue. The end result is a clarification (to some) or change (to others) of the spoiler policy - and that is going to take longer, because we will have to sort out the grandfathering clause. We will, trust me, because I was under the impression that this is exactly the sort of thing it was put in place to prevent.

Cindy, you said that the very fact that Trudy and I got spoiled on the issues (me in May, Trudy I don't know when) means that it is common knowledge. I disagree. In the normal course of things I would not have gotten spoiled - someone who didn't know the rules spoiled me. On one of the smaller casting spoilers, I got spoiled - twice - in a NAFDA thread. Once by a cut-and-paste that contained a spoiler and the poster hadn't noticed it in time, and once by someone who apparently assumed it was common knowledge. It wasn't. And I wish I hadn't been spoiled.

Plei, you've taken offense at the bringing up of the grandfather clause and asking for action on it in Sartre. I'm sorry that you were offended. We are asking for a policy decision to be made according to the rules as we understand them.

People have mentioned that things said in the Spoiler Thread have been offensive - I personally have been greatly offended by them, though PMM has made me feel less so - others can say that they, themselves, were not offended, but please do not tell me that they are not offensive. My offense is genuine and I wish I would be accorded the respect that another Buffista's feelings should be accorded.

I've been trying to be as accomodating as I can be. I have suggested compromise after compromise - it obviously hasn't worked.

Kristen, I am sorry if the tone seemed harsh. I really am.

Couldn't I say the same thing to you about casting spoilers, though? Why does your opinion weigh more?

It doesn't weigh more, but if you spoil me I cannot be unspoiled. I, otoh, cannot irrevocably unspoil you.

Unreasonable might be better. Conversations are stifled when we can't discuss Nick's new show, or Emma's theatre aspirations. I think that's unreasonable, and I think my opinion on that weighs as much as anyone's.

Those come under "anti-spoilers". They are an admittedly recent corruption of the policy. I'm willing to give them up as they are not in the definition. I think everyone else is too.

Couldn't I say the same thing to you about casting spoilers, though? Why does your opinion weigh more?

Oh, look, Trudy just said what I was going to say.

(edit) It has been brought to my attention that this post might be considered snarky. That was in no way my intention, I just read Trudy's post while I was about to post literally the same response and it struck me terribly funny.

Trudy, Elena, I'm just speculating here, but it does seem that Spoilers is now a subcommunity, who are increasingly going to the the Spoiler thread for general discussion, in order to protect the unspoiled from slips. A fair amount of time, Spoilers is pretty unSpoilery, and more Speculationy.

There is likely going to be an entire fast moving thread containing conversation in which you cannot take part. Are you okay with that? Because the way I see it, Spoilers is actually most often: Angel, with Casting Info.

I'm not really committed to anything. I get that if you're spoiled you can't be unspoiled, and I get the frustration about not discussing things in the show threads that are common knowledge. It feels like sticking our heads in the sand.

It reminded me of something though. Did we know that there would be a musical episode prior to the promos? Did we talk about it? I remember a link to one of the promos, but I honestly have no idea if it was a spoiler or not.

Thank you, Trudy. I appreciate that.

Spoilers is actually most often: Angel, with Casting Info.

Yes. This. Spoilers really has become its own community, natter and all, for the reasons I cited above.

We talked about cilantro and whether or not it grows from the devil's ass for 40 posts, yesterday.

There is likely going to be an entire fast moving thread containing conversation in which you cannot take part. Are you okay with that? Because the way I see it, Spoilers is actually most often: Angel, with Casting Info.

Allyson, I have been okay with that up to now. And if the spoiler policy gets loosened in the NAFDA threads I'm going to have to be okay with missing more threads.

The thing is - knowing stuff ahead of time - even stuff like who is signing on and who is leaving - diminishes my enjoyment of the show. In much the same way that spoiler-seekers have their enjoyment increased by knowing details and anticipating what's to come next, my enjoyment comes from the not knowing. From seeing things spool out ahead of me in ways that I cannot begin to know.

There is likely going to be an entire fast moving thread containing conversation in which you cannot take part. Are you okay with that? Because the way I see it, Spoilers is actually most often: Angel, with Casting Info.

I am much more ok with that than having to unsub from Bitches in order to enjoy the show as it unfolds.

It would be a horrible choice to have to make.