Spike: Or maybe Captain Forehead was feeling a little less special. Didn't like me crashing his exclusive club, another vampire with a soul in the world. Angel: You're not in the world, Casper.

'Just Rewards (2)'


Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!  

We open it up, we talks the talk, we votes, we shuts it down. This thread is to free up Bureaucracy for daily details as we hammer out the Big Issues towards a vote. Open only when a proposal has been made and seconded according to Buffista policy (Which we voted on!). If this thread is closed, hie thee to Bureaucracy instead!


-t - Dec 08, 2020 11:20:41 am PST #10232 of 10289
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

I do want to explicitly say that I am assuming this is not meant to remove such discussions from other threads where they might naturally arise. Although obviously a discussion *can* move I don't think we want to shut down a conversation somewhere else. Does that make sense?


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 11:23:00 am PST #10233 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I do want to explicitly say that I am assuming this is not meant to remove such discussions from other threads where they might naturally arise.

This is something to discuss as it just happened and many did want the discussion out of the thread where it originated. This was one reason I made this proposal.


DavidS - Dec 08, 2020 11:30:10 am PST #10234 of 10289
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I feel the need to clarify that safe spaces exist to prioritize the voices and concerns of marginalized communities.

My word choice was ill advised as "safe space" has a specific meaning in the context of these discussions.

I guess I meant more that having this kind of talk within the community is different from broaching these issues in the internet at large where you can get piled on by strangers in a hurry in a way that shuts down discussion.


-t - Dec 08, 2020 11:32:22 am PST #10235 of 10289
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

This is something to discuss as it just happened and many did want the discussion out of the thread where it originated. This was one reason I made this proposal.

Yeah, I realize that and recognize the need. I'm just saying that might not always be the case. And possibly this is not a real thing I need to be worrying about, even. It's not like I can think of an example of the kind of thing I have in mind, it's kind of a nebulous concern.

::edited for context


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 11:33:46 am PST #10236 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I guess I meant more that having this kind of talk within the community is different from broaching these issues in the internet at large where you can get piled on by strangers in a hurry in a way that shuts down discussion.

It does help when folks have relationships with those they engage in these discussions. You already know it was likely an "oops" moment rather than an intended slur. That said, doubling down will inevitably lead to less "nice" discussions. Minorities are not obligated to 1) educate or 2) be nice when someone is being actively aggressive in dismissing your rights/words.


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 11:37:28 am PST #10237 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

-t, I hope that we'd get to a place where we'd want to bring all of this to that thread and not consider getting called out a bad thing. It takes time to get there, but at this point in my journey, I am really happy? glad? when I get called out because I'm about to learn something I didn't know before. It can be hard (it IS hard at first), but we can all get to that place and internalize that a call out happens when someone cares enough about you to educate you and that making mistakes is how we all learn. It is not a bad thing. It's just a mistake.


-t - Dec 08, 2020 11:45:15 am PST #10238 of 10289
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

Mm, that's not the angle I'm thinking about - more like if someone brings something up in another thread getting told to take it to the proposed thread instead. Not necessarily a call out situation, just the topic?


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 11:47:41 am PST #10239 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

Got it. That would be a discussion point for the new thread.


sj - Dec 08, 2020 11:56:47 am PST #10240 of 10289
"There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea."

Wading in because this doesn’t appear to be going as badly as I feared it would. I was both uncomfortable with the conversation getting out of control in the thread it started in and with those who were indicating that we should move it along or just be done with the discussion. I never expected to conversation to become as out of control as it did, but when it did I also didn’t know where I was supposed to move it to. I could have handled the situation backchannel, and maybe I should have, but I felt it was an opportunity for many others here to think about words and phrases that they might not have realized could be hurtful to the disabled community. If there was a thread like the one GC has proposed where I could have brought up the matter, I would have used it instead.


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 11:58:18 am PST #10241 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I am glad you didn't handle it backchannel, sj. I guarantee you that at least one person learned something new from the discussion, which is so so necessary. Thank you for posting!