I wanna die in bed surrounded by fat grandchildren, but guess that's off the menu.

Jenny ,'Bring On The Night'


Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!  

We open it up, we talks the talk, we votes, we shuts it down. This thread is to free up Bureaucracy for daily details as we hammer out the Big Issues towards a vote. Open only when a proposal has been made and seconded according to Buffista policy (Which we voted on!). If this thread is closed, hie thee to Bureaucracy instead!


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 9:03:35 am PST #10219 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

It would be nice to have a safe space to engage in these delicate discussions.

Definitely safe, but not necessarily comfortable would be my definition.


Sophia Brooks - Dec 08, 2020 9:06:01 am PST #10220 of 10289
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

I think we want to encourage the thinking. That is what we are about as Buffistas. We had a sort of horrible thing about 9/11 we don’t talk about, but it is real with a conversation between two people both of whom do not post here now and one who left completely. I don’t want that to happen. I don’t want to lose people.


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 9:06:14 am PST #10221 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

My one concern would be that while I don’t want to put any burden on members of whatever community to respond or participate, I also wouldn’t want it to be “here are white people/straight people/cis people explaining what’s right and wrong” either? Not sure how to explain or help that though.

We all own educating ourselves. I agree that the more participation we have from people in those groups, the better. But in the absence, we still have to be committed to growth. Again, we don't put the onus of education on marginalized groups. We are fortunate when they (we) take part.

ETA: There are many (MANY) resources provided by folks in those marginalized communities, so it's not in the absence of those voices.


meara - Dec 08, 2020 9:18:16 am PST #10222 of 10289

Ok yeah—I would hope people are pointing to those resources—def not meaning our marginalized members of whatever type would need to participate. But I’ve seen a lot of self congratulatory “look we are doing the work” among in groups before where if someone in the group they’re actually discussing came along, itd be obvious that they’re only vaguely touching on reality? If that makes sense? Not sure how that can be guided/avoided, but would hope we’d keep it in mind.

(ETA: this is obvi not voting against opening a thread! More “things to keep in mind once we have a thread”?)


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 9:48:14 am PST #10223 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I feel the need to clarify that safe spaces exist to prioritize the voices and concerns of marginalized communities. The world at large is a safe space if you're white, male, cis, straight, able-bodied, etc. For example, in a discussion on race or trans issues, it is not a safe space for me as a white lesbian to double down or minimize what is being discussed.


Jesse - Dec 08, 2020 9:48:49 am PST #10224 of 10289
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

But I’ve seen a lot of self congratulatory “look we are doing the work” among in groups before

Yes, same, I also have this concern.

And this wouldn't be a call-out thread, right? Like, "Joss, meet me in [thread] so I can explain where you went wrong"?


juliana - Dec 08, 2020 9:49:19 am PST #10225 of 10289
I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I miss them all tonight…

I know I'm not here much, but I'm definitely in favor of this thread. EDIT: Provided, of course, that it's not a call-out thread, but an education thread.


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 9:50:13 am PST #10226 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

The intent is not to be a call out space, but to be a place of learning and growth. That said, if someone is doubling down anywhere on the board? Yeah, I think that would be a time to go to this thread and discuss. Someone says something and is told in-thread that it's problematic and they apologize and move on? No need to take it to this thread, except maybe to add the issue to discuss (not to point fingers at the original discussion, but to have it be its own topic for learning). Does that make sense?


Glamcookie - Dec 08, 2020 9:51:31 am PST #10227 of 10289
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

And re: the woke thing - absolutely agree with you. There is never a time when you've (in general) reached the end of this work. It is a life-long process that will continue long after we are all gone.


lisah - Dec 08, 2020 10:07:18 am PST #10228 of 10289
Punishingly Intricate

Sounds like a good idea, glam.

I am confused about this:

We had a sort of horrible thing about 9/11 we don’t talk about, but it is real with a conversation between two people both of whom do not post here now and one who left completely. I don’t want that to happen. I don’t want to lose people.

I don't remember what you're referring to, Sophia, and I'm not sure if you're saying a space like Glam is proposing would have helped or hurt.