I thought he was doing a constant self-talk-down of "Can't shoot Ross, can't shoot Ross. At least I know where they're at for now, what's a few more people who hate my guts while I try to save the world?"
Xander: Am I right, Giles? Giles: I'm almost certain you're not. Though, to be fair, I haven't been
listening.
'Sleeper'
Marvel Universe: Infinite Chrises
Discussion of all Marvel Cinematic Universe related movies and TV shows, including, but not limited to, the Avengers, Captain America, Agent Carter, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Daredevil, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, etc., etc., etc. ad-infinitum.
Discussion of non-MCU Marvel titles like the X-Men or the Fantastic Four is also permitted. Ties to comics may be discussed, but this is not the primary forum for comics discussion (see the Other Media thread).
Spoiler policy: For broadcast TV shows, blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast. For movies and Internet streaming shows, whitefont all plot-related discussion until it's been in wide release two weeks. Posters are encouraged to preface their posts to indicate the subject, particulary if switching subjects.
Connie Neil - Mar 09, 2018 11:27:39 am PST #1885 of 4009
brillig
Dana - Mar 09, 2018 12:47:15 pm PST #1886 of 4009
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.
You get your mean mittens off Tony Stark right now.
Short version: I agree with Steph, and the fight at the end of Civil War breaks my heart. No, Bucky isn't really culpable for what he did. But that doesn't help Tony, who arguably wouldn't have gone down this path if his parents hadn't died. And if his replacement father figure hadn't betrayed him horribly. He starts out feeling responsible for the weapons that SI manufactured. By the end of Ultron, he's responsible for everything that happened with that. And he can't convince the people who he thought would support him to be on what he sees as his side. And then he finds out, at the worst possible time, that Bucky killed his parents, and Steve knew.
...this did not turn out to be the short version.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 1:02:06 pm PST #1887 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
No, Bucky isn't really culpable for what he did. But that doesn't help Tony
I mean, Tony gets that. Logic says one thing, but emotions rule the day. He's decided (inasmuch as it was a conscious decision) to respond from that emotional place of the kid (yes, he was basically still a kid when his parents died) who lost his parents. Saying "I don't care" implies "I know [that Bucky isn't culpable], but [I still don't care]."
And, y'know, I get that. I think Tony is wrong about signing the Sokovia Accords, but I would react to learning that the Winter Soldier killed my parents the same damn way. I know that I would. Tony is *fucked up*, and it resonates with me. Logic says one thing, but emotions rule the day. (Frankly, in BTVS, the Scooby Gang -- even Giles -- let S3 Angel off WAY too easily, emotionally speaking -- after his deadly shenanigans as Angelus.)
Connie Neil - Mar 09, 2018 1:02:40 pm PST #1888 of 4009
brillig
What Dana said. Tony's made mistakes, but he's not a villain.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 1:04:18 pm PST #1889 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
Tony's made mistakes, but he's not a villain.
He's not even an antagonist, not really, IMO.
Connie Neil - Mar 09, 2018 2:02:57 pm PST #1890 of 4009
brillig
Agreed. Flawed hero. And aren't they all.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 2:26:34 pm PST #1891 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
No, Cap is a perfect cinnamon roll.
...I can't even type that without laughing. I love Cap (I mean LOVE LOVE LOVE him), but he is a troll ("On your left!") and he has some anger issues and loves to fight.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 2:27:34 pm PST #1892 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
Actually, thinking about it, I'm amused by the idea of Cap in Wakanda, because M'Baku is a big ol' troll, too, and the 2 of them together would be invincible.
Connie Neil - Mar 09, 2018 2:44:43 pm PST #1893 of 4009
brillig
Oh, gosh, T'Challa would throw them out of the palace for smack-talking each other.
Matt the Bruins fan - Mar 09, 2018 4:26:17 pm PST #1894 of 4009
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
Sorry, I don't think you get to be the hero when you say "I don't care that someone wasn't responsible for his actions; I'ma kill him anyway." If his parents' deaths excuse him playing judge, jury, and executioner then the same goes for the Maximoffs, Zemo, and everyone else who lost someone to Ultron's plans or bombs that Stark manufactured and sold.