Discussion of all Marvel Cinematic Universe related movies and TV shows, including, but not limited to, the Avengers, Captain America, Agent Carter, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Daredevil, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, etc., etc., etc. ad-infinitum.
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You get your mean mittens off Tony Stark right now.
Short version: I agree with Steph, and the fight at the end of Civil War breaks my heart. No, Bucky isn't really culpable for what he did. But that doesn't help Tony, who arguably wouldn't have gone down this path if his parents hadn't died. And if his replacement father figure hadn't betrayed him horribly. He starts out feeling responsible for the weapons that SI manufactured. By the end of Ultron, he's responsible for everything that happened with that. And he can't convince the people who he thought would support him to be on what he sees as his side. And then he finds out, at the worst possible time, that Bucky killed his parents, and Steve knew.
...this did not turn out to be the short version.
No, Bucky isn't really culpable for what he did. But that doesn't help Tony
I mean, Tony gets that. Logic says one thing, but emotions rule the day. He's decided (inasmuch as it was a conscious decision) to respond from that emotional place of the kid (yes, he was basically still a kid when his parents died) who lost his parents. Saying "I don't care" implies "I know [that Bucky isn't culpable], but [I still don't care]."
And, y'know, I get that. I think Tony is wrong about signing the Sokovia Accords, but I would react to learning that the Winter Soldier killed my parents the same damn way. I know that I would. Tony is *fucked up*, and it resonates with me. Logic says one thing, but emotions rule the day. (Frankly, in BTVS, the Scooby Gang -- even Giles -- let S3 Angel off WAY too easily, emotionally speaking -- after his deadly shenanigans as Angelus.)
What Dana said. Tony's made mistakes, but he's not a villain.
Tony's made mistakes, but he's not a villain.
He's not even an antagonist, not really, IMO.
Agreed. Flawed hero. And aren't they all.
No, Cap is a perfect cinnamon roll.
...I can't even type that without laughing. I love Cap (I mean LOVE LOVE LOVE him), but he is a troll ("On your left!") and he has some anger issues and loves to fight.
Actually, thinking about it, I'm amused by the idea of Cap in Wakanda, because M'Baku is a big ol' troll, too, and the 2 of them together would be invincible.
Oh, gosh, T'Challa would throw them out of the palace for smack-talking each other.
Sorry, I don't think you get to be the hero when you say "I don't care that someone wasn't responsible for his actions; I'ma kill him anyway." If his parents' deaths excuse him playing judge, jury, and executioner then the same goes for the Maximoffs, Zemo, and everyone else who lost someone to Ultron's plans or bombs that Stark manufactured and sold.
SURPRISE GUNN!!!
OK, it's either Deathlok or a phantasm, but still.
