What Dana said. Tony's made mistakes, but he's not a villain.
Well, we may not have parted on the best of terms. I realize certain words were exchanged. Also, certain... bullets. But that's air through the engine. It's past. We're business people.
Mal ,'Serenity'
Marvel Universe: Infinite Chrises
Discussion of all Marvel Cinematic Universe related movies and TV shows, including, but not limited to, the Avengers, Captain America, Agent Carter, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Daredevil, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, etc., etc., etc. ad-infinitum.
Discussion of non-MCU Marvel titles like the X-Men or the Fantastic Four is also permitted. Ties to comics may be discussed, but this is not the primary forum for comics discussion (see the Other Media thread).
Spoiler policy: For broadcast TV shows, blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast. For movies and Internet streaming shows, whitefont all plot-related discussion until it's been in wide release two weeks. Posters are encouraged to preface their posts to indicate the subject, particulary if switching subjects.
Connie Neil - Mar 09, 2018 1:02:40 pm PST #1888 of 4009
brillig
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 1:04:18 pm PST #1889 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
Tony's made mistakes, but he's not a villain.
He's not even an antagonist, not really, IMO.
Connie Neil - Mar 09, 2018 2:02:57 pm PST #1890 of 4009
brillig
Agreed. Flawed hero. And aren't they all.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 2:26:34 pm PST #1891 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
No, Cap is a perfect cinnamon roll.
...I can't even type that without laughing. I love Cap (I mean LOVE LOVE LOVE him), but he is a troll ("On your left!") and he has some anger issues and loves to fight.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 2:27:34 pm PST #1892 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
Actually, thinking about it, I'm amused by the idea of Cap in Wakanda, because M'Baku is a big ol' troll, too, and the 2 of them together would be invincible.
Connie Neil - Mar 09, 2018 2:44:43 pm PST #1893 of 4009
brillig
Oh, gosh, T'Challa would throw them out of the palace for smack-talking each other.
Matt the Bruins fan - Mar 09, 2018 4:26:17 pm PST #1894 of 4009
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
Sorry, I don't think you get to be the hero when you say "I don't care that someone wasn't responsible for his actions; I'ma kill him anyway." If his parents' deaths excuse him playing judge, jury, and executioner then the same goes for the Maximoffs, Zemo, and everyone else who lost someone to Ultron's plans or bombs that Stark manufactured and sold.
chrismg - Mar 09, 2018 4:38:01 pm PST #1895 of 4009
"...and then Legolas and the Hulk destroy the entire Greek army." - Penny Arcade
SURPRISE GUNN!!!
OK, it's either Deathlok or a phantasm, but still.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 4:45:51 pm PST #1896 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
Sorry, I don't think you get to be the hero when you say "I don't care that someone wasn't responsible for his actions; I'ma kill him anyway." If his parents' deaths excuse him playing judge, jury, and executioner then the same goes for the Maximoffs, Zemo, and everyone else who lost someone to Ultron's plans or bombs that Stark manufactured and sold.
I assume that includes T'Challa in CA:CW then, too. Because he was also going after Bucky (erroneously) to get vengeance for his father. And it was pretty clear he wasn't going to extradite Bucky to Wakanda to stand trial.
It's a trope at this point for the Designated Good Guy to have the impulse to kill the person who's responsible (or who the Designated Good Guy THINKS is responsible) for the death of a loved one. But then something or someone stops the Designated Good Guy from going through with it. And yet the Designated Good Guy still remains a hero.
I mean, I think Cap was going to kill Tony in that last fight in CA:CW. But he didn't. Maybe he should be lumped in the not-hero group with Tony and T'Challa. The Avengers would be better off run by Spider-Man anyway.
Dana - Mar 09, 2018 5:48:20 pm PST #1897 of 4009
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.
If his parents' deaths excuse him playing judge, jury, and executioner then the same goes for the Maximoffs, Zemo, and everyone else who lost someone to Ultron's plans or bombs that Stark manufactured and sold.
I suspect Tony would agree with you, though not to the extent of letting himself be killed.
But it's not like his thought processes were exactly clear when he went flailing at Bucky.