Actually, thinking about it, I'm amused by the idea of Cap in Wakanda, because M'Baku is a big ol' troll, too, and the 2 of them together would be invincible.
Say! look at you! You look just like me! We're very pretty.
Buffybot ,'Dirty Girls'
Marvel Universe: Infinite Chrises
Discussion of all Marvel Cinematic Universe related movies and TV shows, including, but not limited to, the Avengers, Captain America, Agent Carter, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Daredevil, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, etc., etc., etc. ad-infinitum.
Discussion of non-MCU Marvel titles like the X-Men or the Fantastic Four is also permitted. Ties to comics may be discussed, but this is not the primary forum for comics discussion (see the Other Media thread).
Spoiler policy: For broadcast TV shows, blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast. For movies and Internet streaming shows, whitefont all plot-related discussion until it's been in wide release two weeks. Posters are encouraged to preface their posts to indicate the subject, particulary if switching subjects.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 2:27:34 pm PST #1892 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
Connie Neil - Mar 09, 2018 2:44:43 pm PST #1893 of 4009
brillig
Oh, gosh, T'Challa would throw them out of the palace for smack-talking each other.
Matt the Bruins fan - Mar 09, 2018 4:26:17 pm PST #1894 of 4009
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
Sorry, I don't think you get to be the hero when you say "I don't care that someone wasn't responsible for his actions; I'ma kill him anyway." If his parents' deaths excuse him playing judge, jury, and executioner then the same goes for the Maximoffs, Zemo, and everyone else who lost someone to Ultron's plans or bombs that Stark manufactured and sold.
chrismg - Mar 09, 2018 4:38:01 pm PST #1895 of 4009
"...and then Legolas and the Hulk destroy the entire Greek army." - Penny Arcade
SURPRISE GUNN!!!
OK, it's either Deathlok or a phantasm, but still.
Steph L. - Mar 09, 2018 4:45:51 pm PST #1896 of 4009
I look more rad than Lutheranism
Sorry, I don't think you get to be the hero when you say "I don't care that someone wasn't responsible for his actions; I'ma kill him anyway." If his parents' deaths excuse him playing judge, jury, and executioner then the same goes for the Maximoffs, Zemo, and everyone else who lost someone to Ultron's plans or bombs that Stark manufactured and sold.
I assume that includes T'Challa in CA:CW then, too. Because he was also going after Bucky (erroneously) to get vengeance for his father. And it was pretty clear he wasn't going to extradite Bucky to Wakanda to stand trial.
It's a trope at this point for the Designated Good Guy to have the impulse to kill the person who's responsible (or who the Designated Good Guy THINKS is responsible) for the death of a loved one. But then something or someone stops the Designated Good Guy from going through with it. And yet the Designated Good Guy still remains a hero.
I mean, I think Cap was going to kill Tony in that last fight in CA:CW. But he didn't. Maybe he should be lumped in the not-hero group with Tony and T'Challa. The Avengers would be better off run by Spider-Man anyway.
Dana - Mar 09, 2018 5:48:20 pm PST #1897 of 4009
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.
If his parents' deaths excuse him playing judge, jury, and executioner then the same goes for the Maximoffs, Zemo, and everyone else who lost someone to Ultron's plans or bombs that Stark manufactured and sold.
I suspect Tony would agree with you, though not to the extent of letting himself be killed.
But it's not like his thought processes were exactly clear when he went flailing at Bucky.
chrismg - Mar 09, 2018 6:09:51 pm PST #1898 of 4009
"...and then Legolas and the Hulk destroy the entire Greek army." - Penny Arcade
The Avengers would be better off run by Spider-Man anyway.
Man, I'm picturing Peter's deer-in-the-headlights look on hearing that, and it's HILARIOUS.
Matt the Bruins fan - Mar 09, 2018 6:30:21 pm PST #1899 of 4009
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
It's a trope at this point for the Designated Good Guy to have the impulse to kill the person who's responsible (or who the Designated Good Guy THINKS is responsible) for the death of a loved one. But then something or someone stops the Designated Good Guy from going through with it. And yet the Designated Good Guy still remains a hero.
The Designated Good Guy remains a hero when he makes a decision to resist the impulse at some point, as T'Challa did (despite the death of a loved one being very recent, not an event 30 years ago). As far as I could tell, the only thing that made Stark stop was the dead weight of his nonfunctional armor.
P.M. Marc - Mar 09, 2018 6:36:50 pm PST #1900 of 4009
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
I am with Matt on this but I am on my iPad and can't tl;dr with the backup here. But, yeah.
Calli - Mar 10, 2018 5:08:19 am PST #1901 of 4009
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs
Sorry, I don't think you get to be the hero when you say "I don't care that someone wasn't responsible for his actions; I'ma kill him anyway."
Yeah, well, if Steve had seen a video of Rhodey going back in time and holding a pillow over Mrs. Roger's face in the sanitorium until she stopped moving, I question whether his first response would be, "I wonder what external factors brought Tony's BFF to this point? Perhaps I should explore further before reacting."
One of the major plot points was a villain manipulating T'Challa and Tony to break up the Avengers. He was good at it. That doesn't excuse Tony, and T'Challa is easily the hero of the movie because he got past it first and best. But there are limits to how much I'll hate on Tony for reacting to having his buttons pushed so well.
One thing I've questioned throughout is why the heck they're trusting the UN. It's a major plot point that Hydra has infiltrated deep within governmental power structures. Was there some massive de-Hydration at the UN that occurred between movies? 'Cause I wouldn't trust a single governmental or supra-governmental entity to run a group of superheroes without it. And Tony would be stupid to trust them, no matter how tired he is of having the responsibility for their actions.