Well, if we followed the recipe...should be cake. A demon-violence-free-zone cake.

Lorne ,'Why We Fight'


Spike's Bitches 46: Don't I get a cookie?  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risqué (and frisqué), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Hil R. - Sep 28, 2010 2:15:16 pm PDT #4416 of 30000
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I dressed as Catwoman for Halloween when I was 11. I can't remember why I chose that costume -- "Batman Returns" had come out that year, so I'd seen the ads for that, but I don't think I'd seen the actual movie. We wore our costumes to school for the afternoon, and I remember spending much of that afternoon veering between, "Eeek! I'm wearing something tight, and everyone can see that I have breasts! Must hide!" and "Hey, I look kind of like the woman in the movie. I look good."

The year before, I'd been Robin Hood. I think my mother asked me if I wouldn't rather be Maid Marian, and I said no, and she left it at that. I think my reasoning was that Robin Hood got to carry a bow and arrow, and Maid Marian didn't really do anything interesting. Plus, Marian wore a dress, and I hated dresses. My mom probably figured she'd rather sew a Robin Hood costume -- which was basically a brown tunic worn over green tights -- than a Marian dress, and she could work on getting me to like wearing dresses some other time.

Now that I think about it, very few of my Halloween costumes were specifically girl costumes. I can remember two costumes that were specifically male characters, three that were specifically female, and most of the rest were non-gendered things like pumpkin or cat.


Steph L. - Sep 28, 2010 2:33:25 pm PDT #4417 of 30000
I look more rad than Lutheranism

I think I don't know enough about childhood development to hold up my end of the conversation. I believe people should be able to dress however they want, but I don't know in what way how a child is perceived effects how they mature.

Well, not only is my problem with the effects on children's maturity, but also on the overall effect on society. I think that sexy costumes for little girls creates a world in which sexualized children become more and more "normal." Not quickly, but over time. And that, too, is dangerous. And unsafe.


§ ita § - Sep 28, 2010 2:36:01 pm PDT #4418 of 30000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Very much what Steph is saying. Premature sexualisation of girls especially is bad for everyone, not just the girls.


Liese S. - Sep 28, 2010 2:38:14 pm PDT #4419 of 30000
"Faded like the lilac, he thought."

Yup, not to pile on, but I agree here.

Also, it's difficult for kids to make decisions about stuff that's sexualized for themselves, because they don't always have a clear understanding of what that means.

Like me grinding on the dance floor. Because I had no clue how that motion translated to sexuality, I didn't really realize that I was projecting a sexual image, only that it was a dance move I'd seen done by older dancers I admired.


Trudy Booth - Sep 28, 2010 2:40:07 pm PDT #4420 of 30000
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

People who sexualize children will do it regardless though. I wish I had a link to the article but I read once, several years ago, about pedophiles frequently being busted and detectives finding videotapes of old Flipper episodes. They had complete sets, were selling and trading them, etc. Sandy and Bud running around barefoot and in cutoffs were very sexy to these men.

It's not what the kids wear that sexualizes them, its the pervert who thinks kids are sexy.


Trudy Booth - Sep 28, 2010 2:45:31 pm PDT #4421 of 30000
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Also, it's difficult for kids to make decisions about stuff that's sexualized for themselves, because they don't always have a clear understanding of what that means.

Like me grinding on the dance floor. Because I had no clue how that motion translated to sexuality, I didn't really realize that I was projecting a sexual image, only that it was a dance move I'd seen done by older dancers I admired.

But its NOT sexual if a little kid is doing it, its a dance step. As a kid gets older and their body developes its a dance step that warrants a discussion and some consideration.

I think about my friends the Is. Huge Cuban family, wonderful parties, those four year olds dance rings around me. Those kids do shit with their hips I only dream of doing -- but since they're four year olds its clear they're just doing dance steps. As they become teens the tone starts to shift and when they're adults its sexy as hell -- but they're still dancing at a family party. It's sexy but clearly it isn't a pick-up scene. Context matters. My friend M isn't trying to nail her uncle -- hell, she's Lesbian -- that's just how you do the dance.


Laga - Sep 28, 2010 2:54:54 pm PDT #4422 of 30000
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.

I don't think putting a sexy outfit on a non-sexual being sexualizes them. I think it's how you behave when dressed that way that determines whether or not you're sexy. But I'm the first to admit I don't see the world the way most others do.

I can't decide if I think society is heading in a dangerous direction. I know I want to read more before I'll be able to form a solid opinion. But I do believe society's path is largely uncontrollable by the individual. I was trying to think of a metaphor and I was working on how you can influence the shape of a river but you can't really change where it's headed. Then I remembered I'm from Chicago and I laughed and laughed.


Zenkitty - Sep 28, 2010 3:03:27 pm PDT #4423 of 30000
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

I don't think putting a sexy outfit on a non-sexual being sexualizes them.

Sexy remains in the eye of the beholder, but there are some beholders whose eyes we don't want to encourage.


Scrappy - Sep 28, 2010 3:07:08 pm PDT #4424 of 30000
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

It may not sexualize them, but it does attract the sexual gaze. And you can say pedophiles will gaze nonetheless, but dressing in a sexual way can be read as an invitation.


Trudy Booth - Sep 28, 2010 3:12:58 pm PDT #4425 of 30000
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

But its not an invitation. They're sick and they're making shit up.