that google search is funny because that's actually where i heard it, aurelia. that's a friend of mine.

tiggy, where did you see that?

twitter, but look. [link] [link] [link] [link]

some of the blurbs that are popping up are saying she's pregnant too. *boggle*

I feel that it’s time to start thinking about scaling back on the whole ‘Dean sacrificed his entire life/ gave up all his options for the sake of Sam /everything was so limited because of Sammy’ belief system that fandom’s had going on for 5 years now.

Just because Dean didn't "need" to do it wouldn't mean that he wouldn't. I think it's a pretty clear character aspect of Dean's that he's willing to give up his own desires for what he feels he "should" be doing. I think that instinct is what makes him so protective of Sam (because that's his "job"), and what at first made him so committed to the hunting lifestyle (because it's "the family business"). I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Dean probably overcompensated A LOT in his role as "parent" to Sam, and that skews their adult relationship now.

And I don't think it's just fandom, I think it's a function of Dean's character. It's only now that *his* view of Sam and their relationship is shifting that he's starting to see Sam as an equal. He said as much himself. Changing those behaviors is not an overnight process.

Also? Dean’s choices are Dean’s choices. Sorry, but they are. Situations can narrow options dramatically but he has said over and over and over that this is what he wants to do.

It's sad that canon doesn't really cover those years, when Dean became an "adult", and when (I would guess) John started treating him more as an equal and a hunting partner, rather than a son. It's my personal fanon that when Dean reached that age, he realized that, while he felt committed to the family business and his father, he also enjoyed and was good at saving people and hunting things.

I think that there is where Dean's tough decision came when it comes to Sam's decision to go. I think Dean would have been aware enough to know that while he loved the life, Sam really really didn't. And he would know that Sam was intelligent and capable, and would do okay on his own. I feel like we see that at the end of the Pilot (just before Jessica meets her unfortunate fate). Dean sees his brother again after two four years, and sees that he's successful and happy with his life. Dean misses his brother, basically the only family he's had other than his dad his whole life, but he's willing to let him go because it's what's best for Sam.

And, as always, there is a world of difference between what one knows objectively, and how one feels subjectively.

I’m sure Dean would have wanted to make sure he was okay, just like any other older sibling would, but he wouldn't have to be glued to Sam’s side until Sam turned 18.

The trick is, Dean's not really an older sibling: he's a parent. Effectively, he'd been in the role of SAHM for most of his childhood. His reactions aren't typical of an older sibling, but they are typical of a parent. I love John, but he did a number on those kids, and in many respects, especially to Dean. I mean, we do know that Dean in his early 20s (before Sam left) took off for a solo road trip that wound up pretty bendy in places, but I expect that was the exception rather than the rule, and that his fraternal/maternal hybrid love continued to be smothering up until Sam left (and if Sam had taken off once already, to Flagstaff, the years between Flagstaff and Stanford would have been filled with waiting for the other shoe to drop and for Sam to go AWOL again).

This is one of those things, like Angel’s gypsy curse, that never made sense to me. Why would Azazel want Sam to have a power than enabled him to help people? The kid who electrified people, or Lily who also electrified people, those make more sense. Like Andy’s evil twin. But the benign powers mystify me.

I think you could fanwank it that the expression of the power up took its intial form (the indication was that the kids could train themselves to do more, after all) based on what the chosen kid was like, and what situation they were in at the time. Also, that Sam tried to repress this unnatural *thing* about himself, due to his upbringing. And the vast majority (all, really) of Sam's visions were somehow connected to Azazel (I personally fanwank that the vision in Home came about because Mary was still there).

I saw those powers the special kids as gateway powers. Ava started out very innocuous (and I agree with you, Plei, that they were primarily YED-related visions), but with acceptance of the destiny they got all sorts of other nasty and demonic things, and that it made perfect sense for the visions to disappear when the YED did too.

I do wonder about the TK. It seemed weird for it to work just the once--Dean was in peril in the cabin too. Maybe it was that it couldn't work against the YED himself.

he wouldn't have to be glued to Sam’s side until Sam turned 18

Again, what Plei said. Dean is a massively broken person by this point. Well, by all points, we've now learnt, since he was doing way too much before the fire. But his father's mandate sealed the deal. His world revolves around one and a half things. And the half is saving people not named Sam. The one is Sam.

Dean is a massively broken person by this point.

I was thinking about that this morning, watching the S1 reruns (Hell House and Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things).

Dean's playfulness in Hell House -- snapping the silly picture of Sam, daring Sam to drink from the gross jar in the basement -- seems so sadly like a second chance at childhood to me.

Grownup!Dean is all about hedonism (when he's not about saving Sam or the job) -- sex with pretty girls, loud music, whatever food tastes best, alcohol. He's always mentioning going to Vegas, or Cancun, or the Star Trek Experience -- *fun* stuff.

And when you look at CSPwDT or AVSC, you see why. Dean didn't get a chance to be a kid then. The fun stuff -- the last of the Lucky Charms, even the innocence -- was left to Sam.

And I think that's why Sam is always turning up his nose at Dean goofing off that way -- he got to be a kid, longer than Dean did anyway, and then he got to make his way, making his own choices, which Dean didn't get to do. (I would bet Dean never asked John if they could go to the Grand Canyon, and we know baseball games weren't a thing they did.) Sam doesn't need to be a kid again; Dean does.

Which ... is probably something everyone already knows, but I was thinking about this morning and it made me sad. So, uh, I shared.

How soon do you figure Dean knew about the supernatural? About when John did? There's just no indication that he was ever sheltered, and that's sadmaking. Because 4! I know he saw what he saw, but do y'all figure the hunt was a conscious part of his life (even though he wasn't on them yet) as soon as his father started on them?

I would think so, at least partly. Or maybe not until he was a little bit older, but then I'm not sure John started hunting the next day.

I can see John saying something like, "I have to find the thing that killed Mommy," or something to that effect.

I can see John saying something like, "I have to find the thing that killed Mommy,"

John! Shut up!

I'm not a hater, I swear. I just have broken!Dean issues big time right now.

I hate the idea of it, even if I can't bring myself to hate John, but I also think as a parent you only have a few options, once you've made the decision to hunt, and when your child knows something was freaky with Mommy's death.

I mean, even at four, you know Mommy doesn't belong up there, so. It would probably depend on how much your kid asks, too -- if Dean wanted to know what happened, there's lying and then there's lying. And he clearly never believed in Santa, so I'm thinking John didn't hold too much back.

It's one of those things I can see saying in the moment, and then quickly regretting it -- "I'm hunting what killed Mommy" as a way to make your absence more palatable, and then realizing, good god, what does the poor kid think about that?

At that point, though, it's too late.

I saw CSPwDT this morning and I was mildly surprised with John checking his guns and packing them up with Sam just sitting there. I guess he was supposed to be hooked on Thundercats on the TV, but shoot, if my parent had a gun out, it would draw my attention.

Just seemed like John was pretty lax about hiding hunting from Sam at that point in time.