it definitely was sloppy, plot wise, especially because (in addition to thinking Aims is right about the consent issue), I just can't believe neither the angels or demons would have tried it before if that was all it took.

I liked the ep, but it was definitely a filler and needed a good sprinkling of handwavium dust.

I liked this more than most of you, I think (but that's usually true of me, since I'm way easy), and I don't mind that it's not as meaty (title aside) as some other episodes. This is the first episode of the back half of the season, and I don't think they can ramp up the angst and tension too high yet. It would be hard to sustain that over ten more episodes.

Plus, I like the look at Dean and Sam and where they are now, emotionally, and the idea that Dean and Sam are wanted men in more ways than one.

The biggest things that bothered me were the consent issue, which I don't think the writers thought through completely, and Gary and Nora at episode's end -- it really felt off to me that they didn't react more to knowing Trevor's death and body had to be dealt with, and that Sam and Dean didn't help them handle in it in some way, even if only to protect themselves.

Speaking of consent issues, was anyone else totally squicked by them using Sam's body to fuck someone? (Presumably, given the fade to black). I think that's why I was so antsy for Dean to catch on. I had to keep reminding myself that unlike demonic possession, Sam wasn't actually in there.

My biggest problem is definitely the vessel consent issue. I'm intrigued by Lucifer's interest in Sam's rage--if someone else can give consent, who cares? I like the rage thing--I don't want it watered down.

I don't think it took too long for Dean to cotton on, having mulled it over. He thought something was weird, but then "Sam" would show some knowledge of the occult. And it flipped and it flopped. I think it's sad that Dean doesn't know Sam as well as he did at the start of season 4, but a lot has happened since then.

And when he did work it out and lay a trap for Gary, I thought it was pretty damned cool.

Trip's body and the fact that Nora is still the logical person to get fingered for it (npi) is hugely sloppy but it bothers me less since it's a one-off messup and doesn't affect the mytharc.

was anyone else totally squicked by them using Sam's body to fuck someone

It's gross, but if Dean doesn't say anything, Sam doesn't need to know. Unless she left marks.

He thought something was weird, but then "Sam" would show some knowledge of the occult. And it flipped and it flopped.

Exactly. He paused every once in a while, but he was so willing to give Sam the benefit of the doubt -- made me both sad and heart-clutchy. They're both walking on eggshells with each other right now -- I thought the same thing at the end of last week's episode, the way Sam didn't push Dean to let him talk.

Sam's rage is a really interesting factor in this, and I'm not at all clear what Lucifer is planning to do with it.

Why? The fact that consent is required at all puts it outsdide of the typical demon possession junk. And I don't get Lucifer as the over-sharing type.

That's my thought. I mean, some demons thought the Colt would work, and the demon information line seems like a big old game of telephone. Plus, I doubt most of them have any sort of direct line to Lucifer, and are more akin to Trip in their dealings with the higher ups, expecting big rewards and NOT knowing what they're messing with.

Why did I think that kid's name was Trevor?

With all the battling, especially now, you don't think demons would brush up on their angel info, wrt consent? It seems to me that if they know, at the least, that Sam has to give it, they would know that a not!Sam wouldn't work (probably).

I'm going to apply handwavium, though, and hope Dean and Sam are simply more careful with Sam and his body from here on out.

you don't think demons would brush up on their angel info, wrt consent?

I can possibly fanwank this away as just not being available information. To keep my interest in the rage thing, I will just have to.

Mostly I'm going to focus on Dean's sad perplexation at being complimented by Sam, and at the switcheroo where Sam's rejecting family-oriented suburbia and Dean's longing for it.

Today's TNT episode is Dead Man's Blood. I left home right after Sam pulled the car over and blew up at John. Good times, good times. And the colt!

you don't think demons would brush up on their angel info, wrt consent?

Here's how I see that. Assuming they figured out that angel's need consent, I don't think most demons would see any equivalence between that and Lucifer. After all, why would he be unable to do something any random demon can accomplish? So there's that. But also, like I said before, Lucifer seems the type to play things very close to the chest. They know he wants Sam Winchester, and they know he intends to use him as a vessel. I very much doubt any of them know much about why his specific interest in Sam, or what it is about him personally that make him the only option.

The demon last night was pretty focused on Sam's "meatsuit." We know that's not all there is to it. I'm betting the demon community at large has as little idea of Lucifer's plans and motivations ultimate end-game than any of us.

and at the switcheroo where Sam's rejecting family-oriented suburbia and Dean's longing for it.

Did you buy that? I wasn't sure if I was supposed to - if Sam was trying (badly) to mimic Dean's "shove it all down" instructions or not.

With all the battling, especially now, you don't think demons would brush up on their angel info, wrt consent?

Who would they consult? Angels generally seem to take a kill on sight approach to confrontations with demons without much chitchat, and Lucifer doesn't strike me as the sort to explain all the nuances of his restrictions to his underlings. Especially since he now knows at least some of them are working against him.