Fun Fact about Carthage, MO: It's home of the Precious Moments Inspirational Park.

Huh. I've been there.

I think the show kills near everybody. The choice has been made not to hire women as semi-regulars, so their paucity is more noted, but the Winchesters are regularly shriven of associates and comrades. It's their mark.

Well, and there's the whole point of the show: supernatural evil kills people and destroys lives. It would be a little weird if everyone always survived, especially the people we (or the Winchesters) care about.

It's a shame to me that we didn't get Jo and Ellen as semi-regulars instead of Bobby (MUCH AS I ADORE BOBBY), but it makes sense to me that Ellen, especially, didn't want to align herself too closely with them on a regular basis. Because the Winchesters are *dangerous* in the really personally involved, sometimes scary obsessed way, and they knew that back when John was alive.

Fun Fact about Carthage, MO: It's home of the Precious Moments Inspirational Park.

So, definitely Hellhole.

I'm absolutely gutted about Ellen and Jo. I managed to stay fairly stoic when Jo said she'd stay behind. I think the meta baggage of the character interfered with my feelings for her which is pretty damn tragic in itself. But, when Ellen said she'd stay behind, or more accurately, didn't say it but decided to do it, I cried. Honestly, it was the most compelling element of the story last night, and I'm not actually sure I was all that impressed with the rest of the story. Death may be an interesting addition next year, we'll see.

While it was shoe-horned in abruptly, I'm glad Jo got her little self-respect moment with Dean and I'm also glad she got a kiss goodbye from him.

True, but I think that what we saw with Ellen and Jo was WAY the heck on the other side of that particular spectrum. It was heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking, and for me, just underscored that for most hunter families, that is the way the world ends. Campbells, Winchesters, Harvelles...

This, especially.

I cried, but I found it unforgiveable. Jo and Ellen died for nothing. That's not agency. That's the storyteller fucking with them.

How is it nothing? Ultimately, yes, the Colt didn't work, but in my view, dying for nothing is a hell of a lot different than dying for the possibility of something (saving the world, in this case) and having it not work out. I get that the show doesn't have a hell of a lot of social capital with a lot of us when it comes to female characters, and hell, I'd accidentally found out that there would be at least A Death, and wow, that made me The Cranky for a while, but ultimately, all I've ever wanted of any show is for them to treat the female characters like competent adults in life or in death. You know, like they'd treat a male character.

Which, in this case, they did.

Supernatural's going to have a high body count, it just is at this point. I don't think anyone's going to make it out alive, frankly. I don't think Bobby will, I don't think Sam will, I don't think Dean will (I'd like for them to, but they probably won't).

Incidentally, I've got my pennies on 5x17 for Bobby Bites It. Anyone else?

One thing I don't like now that the show is more about the coming Apocalypse than cryptozoology along America's backroads is that everything is still set in the US. I wish there'd been at least a throwaway line from Lucifer at some point that his host has been a recluse since his wife died, so he figured he might as well set everything up close to home.

Also, why can't Castiel kill demons anymore? He destroyed or expelled several angels immediately after his resurrection, and that's been shown to be much more difficult to accomplish. It'd be nice if the changes to his bag of tricks had some sort of internal consistency.

I can't also help but think that the very fandom-savvy writers were more or less saying, "Have at it, Good Omens/Supernatural crossover ficcers!"

The opening shot of the highway interchange was totally an homage.

I dreamed that Bobby died too. He was impaled. It was bloody.

It'd be nice if the changes to his bag of tricks had some sort of internal consistency.

Well, at least he seems surprised by the inconsistency.

Fun Fact about Carthage, MO: It's home of the Precious Moments Inspirational Park.

Huh. I've been there.

You sent us photos from the place. Even more scary than some of your links.

Also, why can't Castiel kill demons anymore? He destroyed or expelled several angels immediately after his resurrection, and that's been shown to be much more difficult to accomplish. It'd be nice if the changes to his bag of tricks had some sort of internal consistency.

I thought they were deteriorating progressively the longer he was out of Heaven. He was clearly surprised he couldn't off the demon, and in The End, Future Castiel mentioned that he had pretty much lost all of his powers by that point.