I think the show kills near everybody. The choice has been made not to hire women as semi-regulars, so their paucity is more noted, but the Winchesters are regularly shriven of associates and comrades. It's their mark.

Exactly. And, in terms of meta-issues with SPN and how it deals with women: yes, it annoys me too. But, it is also very apparent to me (and especially after last week's episode) that the creators are fans of media that is traditionally problematic. They're gaming, horror, and comics geeks. (Trust me, last week's LARPing convention was FAR TOO ACCURATE for mere passing Google research.) And they haven't stopped to really examine or think about some of the recurring issues that are present in those types of media.

Yes, they could and should be better about the show's treatment of women. But I'm not terribly surprised that they aren't. I think that writing Jo and Ellen's deaths as a choice they made was a step forward in terms of how the show views female characters.

I agree that no one is going to escape unscathed from this season's arc. I've resigned myself to Bobby's death, I've somewhat resigned myself to Castiel's death. I don't think both of the Winchester boys are going to make it out alive, either.

Maybe NEITHER boy will make it out alive. Heck, it would not be false to the horror genre for the last episode to kill off everyone on this planet as Lucifer triumphs. Lucifer kills off all the demons, God shows up and kills off all the angels (including Lucifer and other fallen angels). Then emo God looks around, says to himself "its going to be very lonely". Long pause. "Well" . Longer pause . shrug. "Let there be light".

I don't think both of the Winchester boys are going to make it out alive, either.

They've already died individually anyway. Killing them both is the only way to keep 'em dead.

I know Sam and Dean are very aware of the short lifespans in their profession, but I'm not convinced Kripke would actually kill off the main characters in the series finale. I mean, you can kill off main characters in your series finale, but not THE main characters.

I do wish we knew for sure that there won't be a sixth season. I keep hearing waffling. If it's going to be a season finale, killing off the Winchesters seems less likely, since they'd just have to be brought back, and we've been through that already.

Yes, they could and should be better about the show's treatment of women. But I'm not terribly surprised that they aren't. I think that writing Jo and Ellen's deaths as a choice they made was a step forward in terms of how the show views female characters.

Totally. Frankly, they did a better job here than Joss Whedon ever did in killing off his female characters.

I know Sam and Dean are very aware of the short lifespans in their profession, but I'm not convinced Kripke would actually kill off the main characters in the series finale. I mean, you can kill off main characters in your series finale, but not THE main characters.

Spoken as a man who was not raised on Blake's 7.

Which, you know, I was raised on, and it twisted my expectations for life.

Spoken as a man who was not raised on Blake's 7.

Heh. I knew someone would come up with a counterexample. (No more counterexamples, though! In case it's a series I watch someday. I've heard of Blake's 7 but don't know much about it.)

My problem is I think Kripke has sort of led up to a series finale this season -- this is a pretty big battle. And if one or both of the boys didn't live through it, I would not only expect it, I'd be pretty much okay with it, if it's done right. (Although one of them all alone after would keep me up nights.)

But I hate the idea that he may feel obliged or tempted to continue, because depending how this season plays out, I can't imagine what they would hunt next season.

I would terribly miss the guys if there's no SPN next season, but seeing them die would fit tonally with the show. I just would like them to die winning. Just because. It's the world they're trying to save.

Next season they'd go back to random mythological creatures? I can't see how that wouldn't be a letdown.

I agree, Amy. That's why I wish they would just come out and say this is the end, that's it, we're going out with a bang.

I just would like them to die winning. Just because. It's the world they're trying to save.

Oh yes. They had better save the damn world, die or no die.

So, the problems I'm having are with the mythology. I really don't like the Lucifer as younger brother story, I see why they are going that way for the parallelism, but I don't like it. And the idea that this raised death is a bigger badder death that has been "chained up" doesn't work for me at all.

And I don't understand burning the group picture in the least. That's not mythology, I just don't get it.