I can't believe I looked at that IV hookup on Alphas and thought Djinn before I thought Inception.

Then again--I needed a picture to illustrate "I have plucked my eyes out" and there was no picture for it but Sam in Bloody Mary. I wonder if I could go a day like--just illustrating all my IO9 posts with some picture from Show or another.

I bumped into another person who knows how Supernatural is. Because Teen Wolf engages with its fandom and entertains gay innuendo in a way that Buffy/Angel and Supernatural never did.

I swear to god, I missed the River of Lethe meeting when it comes to Teen Wolf. I want my own Stiles just like you're supposed to, but I'VE DONE FANDOM BEFORE. So have you. Jesus. Jeff Davis hasn't actually put hoyay into his shows yet. He's gone "Oh, what? Oh, that's cool!" He is SEASONS behind where you were with your other shows. Hell, White Collar came out of the gate gayer than this, and I'm not talking about Bomer. Just because Sterek has been trending on all the social media in the last eight months...

My entire point was, actually, that Jeff Davis should not listen to the fans, and he should do what makes the best story, not what makes the loudest fans louder. I.E., learn from the mistakes made with Spike and Bela/Jo. Write your own damned story, not for the network, not for the petitioners.

I don't know, I'd say Teen Wolf is the gayer show, it just doesn't involve fandom's preferred OTP in the hoyay. I don't recall Sam or Dean getting numbers from a gaggle of drag queens during a case and inviting them to parties at a later date. Nor can SPN match the amount of angsty shirtless confrontations in locker rooms and showers. Though if Jeremy Carver takes that as a challenge, fine by me!

Admittedly I've spent way too little time in male locker rooms, but don't they all have a lot of shirtless guys?

But the conversation wasn't about who was gayer--it was about who would shy away from engaging in gay nods to the audience, and Jeff Davis hasn't done that--he's just been writing his "no issue Beacon Hills" which involves angst free gay clubs and drag queens. That had nothing to do with his relationship to the fans, because that only came about after the season was already filmed.

Do you not see a difference between gay content and hoyay?

You mean Davis is just writing his show the way he envisions the world he created, but SPN writers are winking at viewers with the "Dick" jokes and all that, right?

I think the degree of winking is okay--ditching Jo and Bela is not. Expecting that yelling Sterek enough times at Davis is supposed to change plotlines--good lord.

But the response to that was "Teen Wolf isn't afraid of its fans who like the gay, unlike Buffy/Angel and Supernatural."

Ah, fuck you, lady. You talk like you've been around the fandom block. You talk like you're not stupid, so why are you saying stupid things. Did anyone watching Angel miss that he slept with Spike? And you don't have to ship D/C to be able to tell the writers know people do, and are willing to drop a bit of fanservice here are there--but I don't want the plot to bend for my ship. I want the plot to bend for better narrative.

Do you not see a difference between gay content and hoyay?

I do, but to me the gay content is Danny downtrodden about his ex or the guys dancing with each other at the club; the hoyay is Derek allowing himself to be leered at to get computer work done, or Jackson telling Danny he's everyone's type, that sort of thing. The presence of actual gay characters doesn't negate subtext also going on with characters who are nominally straight. I see plenty of the latter, just not between Stiles and Derek.

I guess I see "I'm everyone's type" as text and not subtext. An explicit and consistent character trait, as well. And having nothing at all to do with pandering to the audience either.

The leering...I guess I think that could just as well have been a straight guy ogling a girl, but then there might have been a power dynamic that makes it skeevy, but again--not subtext either. It's a gay guy, ogling a hot guy with no shirt on. Makes the world go round, ogling of shirtless buff men does.

I'm torturing myself by reading a beautifully written fic that clearly said "Character Death", so I've been crying nonstop for the final five chapters.

TNT showed the pilot today. Of course I recorded it to watch. I own it on dvd, yeah. But it was ON.

In part, my dvd player died and so it's not a simple thing to pop in a dvd. But I ripped all of season one to my laptop and could pop that to my tv easily.

God, that fight scene intro. I'm watching it twice. At least.

Don't you think you should avoid tagging this story so it shows up in the D/C listing in AO3?

Sam's wife Jess dies in a tragic accident, leaving him and their autistic daughter Leigh heartbroken. After living with Sam's brother for a year, Sam decides to get a fresh start in his life and start moving on from the terrible loss. He moves into an apartment in the heart of the city that only has one real blessing about it: the bakery across the street. The coffee there is the best Sam's ever tasted and the pastries are absolutely to die for. Best of all, it's owned by two brothers, Gabriel and Castiel Novak, and Leigh is immediately smitten with them. The brothers are equally taken by her and they soon become Sam's closest friends. They help him raise Leigh and, at the same time, get his life back on track. Along the way, Sam finds himself drawn particularly to Gabriel, who's crude, loud, obnoxious, and nothing like what he's usually attracted to.

There should be a "but not in an important way" disclaimer tag.