Simon: The decision saved your life. Zoe: Won't happen again, sir. Mal: Good. And thanks. I'm grateful. Zoe: It was my pleasure, sir.

'Out Of Gas'


Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?  

[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Typo Boy - Dec 04, 2010 12:04:49 pm PST #16233 of 30002
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

One path out forward (without either predicting or advocating for this as what the writers choose):

1) Sam & Dean reconcile and help Castiel win his war. Their sneaky mudmonkey minds come up with dirty high-risk stupid options that should not work but do, options Castiel would never think of.

2) Once freed from his war, Castiel is able to put the power of heaven (maybe in alliance with some third power - God, Faery, monster whatever) behind San & Dean resucing Sam's soul.

3) Rescued soul goes to heaven for some heavy therapy rehab, and is healed sufficiently not to drive Sam into a coma before being restored.

BTW, "Angels are dicks" has stopped being anilicously restated all the time and is just taken for granted. For instance everyone just assumes that Michael is joining Lucifer in torturing Sam's soul. Nobody even considers Michael would have to decency to not torture, or even fight to protect Sam. Of course nothing in his character suggests otherwise, but there was a time when Castiel would have assumed the best of Michael.


§ ita § - Dec 04, 2010 12:07:57 pm PST #16234 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

there was a time when Castiel would have assumed the best of Michael.

When? When Michael's name came up it was pretty much in the negative as wanting the end of the world, and Cas was resisting it.


Typo Boy - Dec 04, 2010 12:13:41 pm PST #16235 of 30002
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

But I think Cas assumed Michael had good motives, and was not gratititously cruel. A certain respect. Now he takes it for granted Michael will join Lucifer in torturing Sam just to relieve the boredom? (Correctly I bet. Though it would interesting if Sam's soul was rescued and was all "tortured? Dude I was never tortured? Michael and Lucifer fought over whether I SHOULD be tortured the whole time. I think they thought continuing the battle was more entertaining than torturing me.") That is a change and I think growth. Remember at the very beginning Castiel was not happy about apocalypse but following orders like a good little soldier. He was the one who let Sam out to kill Lilith.


Polter-Cow - Dec 04, 2010 12:19:19 pm PST #16236 of 30002
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I just don't get Samuel wanting his daughter back more than his wife. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, except for how viewers know Mary as a character and not Deanna. Sloppy writing there.

My thoughts as well!

I have to watch that again. That was ... one of the most fucked up episodes I can remember.

And I really dug it!

She was the Djinn from the first ep of the season.

Ooooh. Thanks.


§ ita § - Dec 04, 2010 12:22:48 pm PST #16237 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think Cas assumed Michael had good motives, and was not gratititously cruel.

I don't recall Cas being anything other than adamantly against Michael's plans, and stating that Michael would do worse to Dean than Raphael did to his post. Do you have any citations of him saying anything positive about him.

I mean, Michael's full plan was to free Lucifer the whole time. Castiel never mentions Michael until this plan is revealed.

Cas was a good soldier when he thought he was following God's orders. Michael's been angelus non grata (or, you know, however that really declines) since his name was first mentioned outside of Houses Of The Holy. He had a full season of dickhood.


Amy - Dec 04, 2010 12:36:12 pm PST #16238 of 30002
Because books.

I don't recall Cas being anything other than adamantly against Michael's plans, and stating that Michael would do worse to Dean than Raphael did to his post.

I always took that to mean he was just so powerful, with so much grace, Dean wouldn't be able to act as his vessel and survive it. Not that Michael would abuse him in any way, although my impression was always that Michael was a self-righteous prig who couldn't see a shade of gray if it smacked him in the sword.

But in the cage, I can imagine a sort of tug of war for Sam's soul, and Michael causing damage that way. I can't really imagine what kind of torture Michael would do to Sam's soul on purpose, although I guess it could be collateral -- whatever he's trying to do Lucifer would have to go through Sam?

Except Lucifer wasn't in Sam's *soul,* just in his meatsuit, so that doesn't really work either.

I really wish the writers had gotten together and made a few decisions about the treatment of souls across the board.


§ ita § - Dec 04, 2010 12:39:13 pm PST #16239 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I always took that to mean he was just so powerful, with so much grace, Dean wouldn't be able to act as his vessel and survive it.

But turns out that Michael totally didn't have to do that. So the idea that Cas thought he would doesn't back up the idea that Cas espoused much positivity about him.

Sure, there was a time when Cas trusted all angels, but Michael's tname has not been mentioned charitably specifically.


Amy - Dec 04, 2010 12:44:08 pm PST #16240 of 30002
Because books.

Oh, I don't think Cas was ever enthusiastic about what a good guy Michael was. That's not what I meant. Just that the two things were separate -- Michael having his own very narrow agenda and zero sense of humor, and Dean being able to survive housing him.


Lee - Dec 04, 2010 1:00:15 pm PST #16241 of 30002
The feeling you get when your brain finally lets your heart get in its pants.

One thing that does confuse me is why at least Castiel thinks leaving Sam's soul down in the cage to be tortured forever is okay. Isn't the soul the "real" Sam?


ehab - Dec 04, 2010 1:06:30 pm PST #16242 of 30002
...all my words have been taken by my work. - Mala

One thing that does confuse me is why at least Castiel thinks leaving Sam's soul down in the cage to be tortured forever is okay. Isn't the soul the "real" Sam?

This bothered me at the time Cas said it. Perhaps he only thinks in the context of what would be better for Dean?