I don't recall Cas being anything other than adamantly against Michael's plans, and stating that Michael would do worse to Dean than Raphael did to his post.

I always took that to mean he was just so powerful, with so much grace, Dean wouldn't be able to act as his vessel and survive it. Not that Michael would abuse him in any way, although my impression was always that Michael was a self-righteous prig who couldn't see a shade of gray if it smacked him in the sword.

But in the cage, I can imagine a sort of tug of war for Sam's soul, and Michael causing damage that way. I can't really imagine what kind of torture Michael would do to Sam's soul on purpose, although I guess it could be collateral -- whatever he's trying to do Lucifer would have to go through Sam?

Except Lucifer wasn't in Sam's *soul,* just in his meatsuit, so that doesn't really work either.

I really wish the writers had gotten together and made a few decisions about the treatment of souls across the board.

I always took that to mean he was just so powerful, with so much grace, Dean wouldn't be able to act as his vessel and survive it.

But turns out that Michael totally didn't have to do that. So the idea that Cas thought he would doesn't back up the idea that Cas espoused much positivity about him.

Sure, there was a time when Cas trusted all angels, but Michael's tname has not been mentioned charitably specifically.

Oh, I don't think Cas was ever enthusiastic about what a good guy Michael was. That's not what I meant. Just that the two things were separate -- Michael having his own very narrow agenda and zero sense of humor, and Dean being able to survive housing him.

One thing that does confuse me is why at least Castiel thinks leaving Sam's soul down in the cage to be tortured forever is okay. Isn't the soul the "real" Sam?

One thing that does confuse me is why at least Castiel thinks leaving Sam's soul down in the cage to be tortured forever is okay. Isn't the soul the "real" Sam?

This bothered me at the time Cas said it. Perhaps he only thinks in the context of what would be better for Dean?

That's what I meant about the soul issue. If RoboSam is aboveground and knows what Sam's memories are, then what consciousness is attached to his soul? I'm not sure what the writers are implying is left in there to be tortured.

But at the same time, how is RoboSam even functioning? He has consciousness and intellect but no feelings?

Yeah, I think the writing on the whole soul front was sloppy at best.

I can see Michael being on board with torturing whatever part of Sam he can--the boys screwed up their big pre-ordained plan, and got Michael stuck in a cage to boot.

I don't understand anything about souls in SPN. To the point where I can't even speculate on any of this. None of it makes any sense to me.

I rewatched and wrote a stream o' conscious reaction. Sadly, I am going to post it here.

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I rewatched SPN:

Mark Sheppard hour? +1 Not that he isn't a scene chewer and totally overused, but I never think, "But Crowley would never do that." because he's a do that character.

Hooker joke, not speaking "little bitch", daily rape shower? - a lot. Seriously, this show gets skeevier and skeevier.

Soulless Sam is actually interesting to watch. But it's going ... nowhere.

Honestly, Dean calling Meg an "evil bitch" doesn't twig me.

No, really, I like soulless Sam. If they can find his soul, put it to rest and go on? I'm game. He's a better hunter. He's a fantastic character. Can the soulless learn to function in the human world?

This first scene with Sam, Dean and Meg is really actually good. Apart from Dean's snip at the dude demon.

Honestly, I really miss when the idea of a boss Crossroads Demon scared the shit out of them. Now the stakes have to be so high and it's getting kinda ludicrous to me as a viewer. Also Cas is an angel of the lord fighting a battle in heaven, he's kinda got more important things to deal with than one hunter's soul. I know it's the Sam and Dean show but they've brought in so many more elements that it doesn't ~feel~ like that anymore and they are just not the biggest game in town any longer.

Sampa bugs. Love the actor, hate the character and his random motivational shifts. Though Dean finally admitting that bringing Sam back was a colossal mistake in that it started Armageddon.

Cas watching porn was Mottsy. Not that "Cas being unhuman" isn't a win, it is. But oh I want a hall to watch from because it feels like a fan service moment with no other reason for existing. See also: later when Cas kisses Meg. Hot, but what the hell? Especially after he greets her by calling her an abomination.

Also, why does Sam kill the demon? Seriously, I've watched twice and I don't get it. Except as a way for Sam to have possession of the knife. Whatever. I am not going to stress on the logic for one minor demon.

Dean is so blind sometimes. But for good reason for all values of good that equal blind to the facts and incapable of thinking ahead to what is likely to happen. I can actually deal with that. Dean is that guy when it comes to Sam.

At least they are all suitably freaked about Hell hounds still.

Sam giving Meg the knife, logical and awesome. Her kissing Cas? Mottsy as hell in context of the show but a seriously hot image. Misha should get more kissing roles. That pizza man taught him well. Why'd Meg need the angel sword instead of the demon slaying knife? Whatever. I honestly am caring less and less.

Pretty sure that I like that Meg survived the Hell hounds. Pretty sure demonic Jonas Quinn having the angel poker is a bad thing. Really still not digging Sampa.

And now I try to ignore the torture scene. It is so skeevy I can't watch it again with all of my attention. So while we get excessively sexualized violence, I ponder.

Honestly, I think this show suffers horribly from, "OMG, we have a fantastic guest star in this one ep / short arc and must keep them on" to the detriment of the show.

And more male rape quips. Stay classy, show. At least we get a really smart soulless Sam with his bloody grin. That was awesome.

Okay, back to pondering - Misha is fantastic. I adore him. I've adored Cas. But they've written themselves into such corners that I enjoy him so much less this season. Mitch Pileggi was awesome as Grandpa. Once. Or in flashbacks. As this season's Sampa? I don't get it at all. Mark Sheppard? No, actually I like him. Overused and over the top. Every show I watch should have him on it. He can be the Star in the Reasonably Priced Car on Top Gear, an international arms dealer on NCIS: LA, a warlock on Vampire Diaries, he can join Sebastian Roché on General Hospital for some Crowley and Balthazar shenanigans, and he can voiceover some documentaries on supervolcanos. I'm good with that. It (continued...)

( continues...) can be like Where's Waldo on my dvr.

Seriously, the Dean and Sam and Meg show is kinda amusing me.

"Haven't seen you all season," was subtle enough that I laughed at the meta. If you weren't an uberfan, you'd miss it.

And I do like BAMF Castiel. Which is actually why I don't like him overused. He's crazy powerful.

Sad that the emo talk over the Impala (hi, baby, hi!) rang so false. Dean and Sam totally do not understand that Cas has more important things going on. They aren't his friends, they just want his power and mojo.

Did like Sam and Dean's emo talk. Felt more honest.