Of course, if Crowley has had the djinn for months, and still hasn't gotten her to talk, it could mean he's not all that when it comes to the torture.

I took events in this episode to indicate that not only was Crowley not very good at obtaining information from someone by torture (as opposed to Alastair's proteges), he was also lying about his new position in Hell providing enhanced personal power. Meg seemed able to hurt him quite handily with the Vader technique, something I would imagine Lilith laughing off effortlessly.

That being the case, I have my doubts about Crowley being able to pull Samuel out of Heaven to resurrect him (and Samuel's own moral state makes me think it likelier that he was just an unquiet spirit that hadn't made it to any final reward yet), and wonder why he would risk all sorts of personal harm to reach into the cage and pull Sam out. Maybe he was trying for something else, like a scheme to steal some of Lucifer's power, and just ended up yanking the meatsuit he was wearing out instead like a crappy consolation prize.

Only his idea of rescue may be a lot worse than what his brother has now

I don't know if Dean can wrap his mind around worse than "being tortured by a frustrated Michael and Lucifer right now." Whatever RoboSam doesn't want to do with that particular soul, it makes perfect sense to get the damned thing out of the cage, so at least that stops, even if it never gets back a proper consciousness.

One path out forward (without either predicting or advocating for this as what the writers choose):

1) Sam & Dean reconcile and help Castiel win his war. Their sneaky mudmonkey minds come up with dirty high-risk stupid options that should not work but do, options Castiel would never think of.

2) Once freed from his war, Castiel is able to put the power of heaven (maybe in alliance with some third power - God, Faery, monster whatever) behind San & Dean resucing Sam's soul.

3) Rescued soul goes to heaven for some heavy therapy rehab, and is healed sufficiently not to drive Sam into a coma before being restored.

BTW, "Angels are dicks" has stopped being anilicously restated all the time and is just taken for granted. For instance everyone just assumes that Michael is joining Lucifer in torturing Sam's soul. Nobody even considers Michael would have to decency to not torture, or even fight to protect Sam. Of course nothing in his character suggests otherwise, but there was a time when Castiel would have assumed the best of Michael.

there was a time when Castiel would have assumed the best of Michael.

When? When Michael's name came up it was pretty much in the negative as wanting the end of the world, and Cas was resisting it.

But I think Cas assumed Michael had good motives, and was not gratititously cruel. A certain respect. Now he takes it for granted Michael will join Lucifer in torturing Sam just to relieve the boredom? (Correctly I bet. Though it would interesting if Sam's soul was rescued and was all "tortured? Dude I was never tortured? Michael and Lucifer fought over whether I SHOULD be tortured the whole time. I think they thought continuing the battle was more entertaining than torturing me.") That is a change and I think growth. Remember at the very beginning Castiel was not happy about apocalypse but following orders like a good little soldier. He was the one who let Sam out to kill Lilith.

I just don't get Samuel wanting his daughter back more than his wife. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, except for how viewers know Mary as a character and not Deanna. Sloppy writing there.

My thoughts as well!

I have to watch that again. That was ... one of the most fucked up episodes I can remember.

And I really dug it!

She was the Djinn from the first ep of the season.

Ooooh. Thanks.

I think Cas assumed Michael had good motives, and was not gratititously cruel.

I don't recall Cas being anything other than adamantly against Michael's plans, and stating that Michael would do worse to Dean than Raphael did to his post. Do you have any citations of him saying anything positive about him.

I mean, Michael's full plan was to free Lucifer the whole time. Castiel never mentions Michael until this plan is revealed.

Cas was a good soldier when he thought he was following God's orders. Michael's been angelus non grata (or, you know, however that really declines) since his name was first mentioned outside of Houses Of The Holy. He had a full season of dickhood.

I don't recall Cas being anything other than adamantly against Michael's plans, and stating that Michael would do worse to Dean than Raphael did to his post.

I always took that to mean he was just so powerful, with so much grace, Dean wouldn't be able to act as his vessel and survive it. Not that Michael would abuse him in any way, although my impression was always that Michael was a self-righteous prig who couldn't see a shade of gray if it smacked him in the sword.

But in the cage, I can imagine a sort of tug of war for Sam's soul, and Michael causing damage that way. I can't really imagine what kind of torture Michael would do to Sam's soul on purpose, although I guess it could be collateral -- whatever he's trying to do Lucifer would have to go through Sam?

Except Lucifer wasn't in Sam's *soul,* just in his meatsuit, so that doesn't really work either.

I really wish the writers had gotten together and made a few decisions about the treatment of souls across the board.

I always took that to mean he was just so powerful, with so much grace, Dean wouldn't be able to act as his vessel and survive it.

But turns out that Michael totally didn't have to do that. So the idea that Cas thought he would doesn't back up the idea that Cas espoused much positivity about him.

Sure, there was a time when Cas trusted all angels, but Michael's tname has not been mentioned charitably specifically.

Oh, I don't think Cas was ever enthusiastic about what a good guy Michael was. That's not what I meant. Just that the two things were separate -- Michael having his own very narrow agenda and zero sense of humor, and Dean being able to survive housing him.