Thanks, Perkins. I thought she was more than a throw-away, but a call back to the jinn story line makes sense.

I think a lot of Samuel's reasoning is fueled by guilt. Though it was really no fault of his, he remembers Azazel using him to make Mary's deal to bring John back and thus was the instrument of her death. That by that same reasoning he was the instrument of Sam's downfall, John's life of vengeance and his grandsons' blighted childhoods he hasn't appeared to consider as immediate to his own guilt.

Sam listened to Castiel's and Crowley's descriptions of the probable state of his soul, and has enough intellectual imagination to realize the implications for him if such a tattered thing were to be forced on him. Bad enough to have a sloppy, emotional, guilt-laden soul hampering your hunts, anyway. One that severely damaged? A frightening prospect, even on an intellectual level. And that Dean, who purports to "love" Sam, would insist on forcing that on him? I think inasfar as he's capable at the moment, Sam is both frightened of the prospect and disappointed and bitter at Dean for wanting Sam to be burdened that way.

Dean believes it can all be fixed. So he's somewhat hypocritical towards Sampa, because he's going to any end to get Sam's soul back, despite it being a potentially bad thing, to restore his family unit. And he'll just fix stuff. Like no doubt Sampa thought he could take care of whatever he had to do to get what he wanted.

Dean probably wants to rescue Sam from what's happening to him right now! That can't be helping him sleep nights. Non-con fisting the soul back into Robo Sam (see, there are opportunities, Gamble--make it less clothed), well, is the choice rescuing the soul and sending it on to heaven? Or trying to get his brother back. That's when we know how selfish he is.

Oh, no argument Dean is trying to reestablish his comfort status quo. At some level he's still a child clinging to the only stability he ever had, and I get that.

I also get he *thinks* he's trying to rescue his brother. Only his idea of rescue may be a lot worse than what his brother has now. But I get why Dean can't think that through and be rational about it--not that that makes it right.

I'm loving Robo-Sam too, from a viewer's standpoint. The bloody grin and the trap on the ceiling definitely raised the hair on my nape, and Padawhack is rocking the chill. But my baby sibling? As the guy who shares my work and my life? Who reminds me daily of who he used to be and is so obviously not that now? That I miss like an amputated limb? That I am frantic to extricate from being caged with a maelstrom of torture? Yeah, I'd be irrational about wanting to both rescue the part that makes him Sam--which is nothing but a good instinct--and resoul the meatsuit beside me--which is a questionable one, at best.

Of course, if Crowley has had the djinn for months, and still hasn't gotten her to talk, it could mean he's not all that when it comes to the torture.

I took events in this episode to indicate that not only was Crowley not very good at obtaining information from someone by torture (as opposed to Alastair's proteges), he was also lying about his new position in Hell providing enhanced personal power. Meg seemed able to hurt him quite handily with the Vader technique, something I would imagine Lilith laughing off effortlessly.

That being the case, I have my doubts about Crowley being able to pull Samuel out of Heaven to resurrect him (and Samuel's own moral state makes me think it likelier that he was just an unquiet spirit that hadn't made it to any final reward yet), and wonder why he would risk all sorts of personal harm to reach into the cage and pull Sam out. Maybe he was trying for something else, like a scheme to steal some of Lucifer's power, and just ended up yanking the meatsuit he was wearing out instead like a crappy consolation prize.

Only his idea of rescue may be a lot worse than what his brother has now

I don't know if Dean can wrap his mind around worse than "being tortured by a frustrated Michael and Lucifer right now." Whatever RoboSam doesn't want to do with that particular soul, it makes perfect sense to get the damned thing out of the cage, so at least that stops, even if it never gets back a proper consciousness.

One path out forward (without either predicting or advocating for this as what the writers choose):

1) Sam & Dean reconcile and help Castiel win his war. Their sneaky mudmonkey minds come up with dirty high-risk stupid options that should not work but do, options Castiel would never think of.

2) Once freed from his war, Castiel is able to put the power of heaven (maybe in alliance with some third power - God, Faery, monster whatever) behind San & Dean resucing Sam's soul.

3) Rescued soul goes to heaven for some heavy therapy rehab, and is healed sufficiently not to drive Sam into a coma before being restored.

BTW, "Angels are dicks" has stopped being anilicously restated all the time and is just taken for granted. For instance everyone just assumes that Michael is joining Lucifer in torturing Sam's soul. Nobody even considers Michael would have to decency to not torture, or even fight to protect Sam. Of course nothing in his character suggests otherwise, but there was a time when Castiel would have assumed the best of Michael.

there was a time when Castiel would have assumed the best of Michael.

When? When Michael's name came up it was pretty much in the negative as wanting the end of the world, and Cas was resisting it.

But I think Cas assumed Michael had good motives, and was not gratititously cruel. A certain respect. Now he takes it for granted Michael will join Lucifer in torturing Sam just to relieve the boredom? (Correctly I bet. Though it would interesting if Sam's soul was rescued and was all "tortured? Dude I was never tortured? Michael and Lucifer fought over whether I SHOULD be tortured the whole time. I think they thought continuing the battle was more entertaining than torturing me.") That is a change and I think growth. Remember at the very beginning Castiel was not happy about apocalypse but following orders like a good little soldier. He was the one who let Sam out to kill Lilith.

I just don't get Samuel wanting his daughter back more than his wife. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, except for how viewers know Mary as a character and not Deanna. Sloppy writing there.

My thoughts as well!

I have to watch that again. That was ... one of the most fucked up episodes I can remember.

And I really dug it!

She was the Djinn from the first ep of the season.

Ooooh. Thanks.