I'm still rifling through my mental rolodex to find popular culture women's women.

I know some in real life. They are earthy, not afraid to call a thing by its right name, are comfortable in their own skins and support you in being the same. There is the strong nurturing motivation BUT one that enriches the nurturer as well as the nurturee. None of that martyrdom dodge. She takes responsibility for herself on all levels and, as such, makes you want to be the best you can be.

One of the strongest feminists I know is a woman who wears the Peter Pan collar and works within the old boy's network. Without taking credit for it, or even being noticed doing it, she uses feminine wisdom to make everyone she touches better. That is true power. So much more than the 'don't open that door for me!' fist shaking I've done in the past.

Or Condi Rice.

This? While repellent, is eerily apt. I do want Sam to regain, and integrate, enough of the sweetness I think is also innate with him. And to be all right with that.

Sam is uber-focused but Dean still knows how to enjoy those brief moments between the terror.

Yes. Which is why he's well on his way to being a man's man. A much more gentle one, perhaps, than John. Maybe not.

I saw a line somewhere (was it here?), about how Dean is the blunt object and Sam is the blade. Works very well for me.

I so would not want to be on Sam's bad side: he is by far the most dangerous of the Winchesters.

Sharp instrument. Both are line quotes: Daddy's little blunt object. Unfortunately I can't cite the sharp instrument quote.

As an aside, my desk is in a corner of the family room, and during the span of posting here, H, StY and I have been arguing--in that sense of lively discussion from differing points of view--gender, religious, and sexual orientation issues. Much of which is cross-pollination. "Philosophy in stereo!" (to echo "Death by stereo!" from Lost Boys)

someone who expects you to be your best but doesn't judge when you are not. He'll cuddle a child, notice a nearly inaccessible blown light bulb and not take 'no, it's okay' for an answer. He'll then climb up the cabinets and do crazy trapeze moves to replace the bulb, all the while making funny faces to make the child laugh.

Yes. Exactly this. They do exist. I am married to one, more often than not. Of course there are times when he thinks he's the company commander, or he gets his head up his butt about one social issue or another, or has a wrong-headed idea about politics.* But for the most part, this is a good description.

*this explains, of course, why those infrequent and minor lapses when I am whiny and want to be babied, or am a termagent about some trifle or other do not affect my overall wonderfulness. Nobody can be on all the time. But when the chips are down, whoever's less damaged has to step up, and trust that it'll be okay when your own leg (mind, heart) is too broke to function.

But when the chips are down, whoever's less damaged has to step up, and trust that it'll be okay when your own leg (mind, heart) is too broke to function.

This is exactly it.

What Juliana (brilliantly!) defines as a SNAG has also been called (by Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon and other feminist bloggers) the "Nice Guy(TM)".

It's a persistent topic on many feminist blogs, because it's such a bloody persistent attitude in our culture. Which brings me to a point ....

Sunil, I know your remark was meant as a joke. Please take a piece of advice from a person somewhat older and more experienced than yourself:

Unlearn the reflex to tell/post those jokes.

They're not funny. They do nothing to improve your status in the eyes of women or men who respect women (in fact, they have quite a negative effect). This kind of crap happens to many women every damned day. The more we can do to create spaces where women don't have to put up with that shit, the more time we will have to discuss topics of mutual interest and generally be better human beings.

Thanks for listening.

I'm older and more experienced than Sunil too and I thought it was funny. I didn't think he was serious and wasn't threatened by his remark at all.

eta: I just didn't want to remain silent as if the above post spoke for me. Nothing more.

Me, either. I think of long-term male 'Ffistas as friends who have naughty joke privileges.

Although I appreciate Karl's protectiveness, I honestly didn't see anything offensive in it at all.

God knows, I am a crass chick. And dude, we objectify men here! A lot! Sometimes. Ok, a lot.

::thinks of Dean in a tux::

::objectifies him::