Sorry ita, if I squicked you out. I contemplated deleting the entry but I was in panic fix-it mode instead.
eta: lcat that is probably what Amy meant when she said it wasn't objectionable from one perspective.
I've tried to march in the Slayer Pride Parade ...
Joyce ,'Same Time, Same Place'
Supernatural 2: Why is it our job to save everybody?
[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US on TV (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though — if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.
ehab - Jul 13, 2010 11:04:47 am PDT #11797 of 30002
...all my words have been taken by my work. - Mala
P.M. Marc - Jul 13, 2010 11:55:14 am PDT #11798 of 30002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
Fixed a spoiler tag upthread, btw.
i'm way behind in this thread, but did we know about this? most especially...did Plei know about this? Jensen AND NPH?
Ohyeah. Crud. Need to beta Trip's essay on it.
Laga - Jul 13, 2010 11:56:07 am PDT #11799 of 30002
You should know I'm a big deal in the Resistance.
I went to add Red Hood it to the Netlfix queue and found D already has it reserved.
Amy - Jul 13, 2010 12:57:49 pm PDT #11800 of 30002
Because books.
ita, what I meant in Dean Language is that Sam does not remember he's Sam. He behaves as Sam would, in that whatever makes up a core personality is still there, so he's still stubborn and curious and strong, but he doesn't remember being Dean's brother. So it's not incest for him.
On the other hand, which is where lcat confuses me, Dean tries to deny that this semi-comatose -- in the beginning -- being is Sam, but it looks like Sam, when he starts to speak again, he speaks like Sam, etc., so to him it's always wrong because to him this *is* Sam, even if he doesn't remember being brothers.
§ ita § - Jul 13, 2010 1:22:41 pm PDT #11801 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
That just makes me go: Oh, Dean! I can imagine that would be entirely gutting, and not for me. Which makes me think about an incest article I read on Gawker today, and genetic sexual attraction. But still not a thing for me in my fic.
Amy - Jul 13, 2010 1:28:02 pm PDT #11802 of 30002
Because books.
Ooh, I'll read that, thanks.
Also, you have email about the other, since I didn't want to go into detail here.
And Dead Language has a surprisingly satisfying ending. I didn't feel at all cheated, in other words -- everything that happened felt not only earned but natural. I think what happened to Sam with Lucifer, if he did survive it, would cause enormous trauma, so it sort of struck me as something I wondered why I'd never seen before.
lcat - Jul 13, 2010 1:40:04 pm PDT #11803 of 30002
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night.
Amy, for Dead Language, what I was drawing from was
the point in the story where Dean was in the snow with a broken leg and Sam stood on the porch - Dean realized that the person he saved wasn't Sam because Sam would have helped him
and then again
when Dean learned that all of the memories were faked, he mourned the loss of his brother again
so, as the story progressed,
it seemed that Dean accepted this Sam as a person separate from his brother Sam
It was such a compelling story with complex characters that I think there are a number of ways to interpret the resolution and I guess I haven't really settled on one yet.
Amy - Jul 13, 2010 1:43:57 pm PDT #11804 of 30002
Because books.
It is complex! Which is part of why it's so good. And I agree -- I think you could interpret Dean's perspective the way you did.
Morgana - Jul 13, 2010 3:14:34 pm PDT #11805 of 30002
"I make mistakes, but I am on the side of Good," the Golux said, "by accident and happenchance.” – The 13 Clocks, James Thurber
I finally managed to read the two stories ita linked yesterday (the cute story and its angsty remix) and I don't think the remix hit me the same way it hit you. (Except maybe Amy, who said:
Especially the end! That ... really came out of nowhere.Because I can see that maybe I wasn't in the correct frame of mind while I read the story, but what I took from it was Sam was deeply unhappy and had seen nothing but unsuccessful relationships his entire life. For the past year or so he'd been watching Dean continue to fuck his way through the hunter community, which was devastating Castiel. Despite the fact that both Sam and Dean had told Castiel that that was precisely how Dean was going to behave. So Castiel was unhappy, Dean got exactly what he wanted but he was unhappy too, and Sam was depressed watching them be unhappy. So somehow the sum total of all of Dean and Castiel's dysfunction convinced Sam to say yes to Lucifer? I just kept staring at the screen thinking why? It didn't make any kind of sense to me. One thing didn't connect at all to the other. I'm willing to accept that I may have missed some kind of nuance, but as it is the story was effective for me up until the last line.
§ ita § - Jul 13, 2010 3:26:09 pm PDT #11806 of 30002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think the transition was Ruby and Lucifer presenting himself as Ruby. Oh, and their father. I think Sam gave up on himself and his family.
Yes, that's a very big step to take, it involving more than just the three of you. So while Dean was living a self-fulfilling prophecy and Castiel should have known what was coming, I think Sam figured there was no helping him. It was a bit of a jump, but I didn't think it was as huge as you did. Major depressive episode.