But Liese, how can you say it's a lie that steals a lot of lives and a tragedy that may have been avoidable (emphasis mine)? It can't be both. Which is only tangentially the point, but I don't always believe there's another better way for the person involved. Sometimes there's just not. Are the decisions made always the right ones? Probably not. But they never always are. The nature of this beast, though, means no do-overs. Which is not the same thing as never being right. Although it is terribly terribly tragic.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I thought quite a bit about my phrasing (well, as much as one does posting on the internet) before I posted and that's why I modified it with "often enough," which admittedly was in the previous sentence.

Oddly enough for my situation I support the right of people to choose to die. I do think there are times and situations where people can rightfully choose that end for themselves. I believe this in the way it extends to choosing living wills and such as well as in suicide specifically.

That said, I still feel that it's often a really avoidable fate. And as you say, irreversible. I think the hurt that extends to people surrounding the person making the choice is an awful thing as well.

In the context we're discussing it, the choice appeared to give relief to one set of people, but leaves the other set behind.

The other thing is that I always have a problem with shows that conflate fantasy with mental illness, and while this is not exactly the case we're talking about here, it still hits my big red button.

Okay, I thought I was about to lose power there, so that last thought was a bit truncated. And I know I'm talking about a show I didn't watch, so I may be losing the thread here.

But if in the end he commits suicide to remain in the past, then the world of fantasy that he has entered dies with him in reality (okay, yes, fictional reality). And it strikes me the wrong way because it seems to me that the kids I know who have killed themselves did so partially because of a fantasy of what would happen (that they would be valued and appreciated after their death, that their death would give their life meaning, that people would care about them only if they died) but that fantasy of themselves died with them. In fact, people did care about them, but sadly did not adequately express that to them or provide for them in a way that allowed them to continue their lives. They were unable to see through their fantasy (nightmare) vision of their lives to find hope.

A storyline that begins and ends with the premise that suicide is the right choice in context of a fantasy causes problems for me.

Does that make any sense?

It does. I think a key difference is that his fantasy was something he had been experiencing, and extensively. He comes back to the "present" and can't find anything there for him.

So he's not gambling on an unknown, but going back something he does know, even as he understands that it won't last much beyond his actual trip back.

Yeah, it's why it's so sad in the context of the show. But I think as seen in the context of life it's almost unbearable. I mean, my kiddoes would express that they had been experiencing persistently the world they describe, and that there is nothing for them in the world everyone else seems to inhabit. For them to make the choice, as he did, to reject the present rather than pursue a way to create a life for themselves within it, the difficult way, grinding it out day after day, would be inexpressibly sad.

I'm extrapolating too much, I know, projecting. But the ending ended up being suicide as a metaphor for suicide for me, and a tough pill to swallow. Or at least to enjoy in the context of seeing a good story told well. I know mileage varies.

I've only seen a few episodes of each series of LoM and have enjoyed them enough that I had all of them sitting on a hard drive waiting for viewing in marathon some day. I really appreciate the (pink for me) font discussion here because I sit with Jen and Liese (and others)in that I would be very upset in both anger and sadness had I sat down to enjoy the series this summer and found it ended that way. I support and understand RL option of suicide, but I don't find it remotely entertaining, only deeply upsetting.

I'll stay tuned in thread to see how it ends before I watch.

I'm relieved I didn't know what the ending was before I saw it. It would have been hard to enjoy the entire series if I had.

I enjoyed the premiere of Reaper - probably for all the non-Sock things. I loved how it ended.

I didn't finish LoM. I saw the first 2 eps of the British show and was interested, but not deeply enough to finish.

Given the discussion above, I am SO GLAD I didn't finish it. I would have been ticked off.

Also, the REAPER premiere? Sock is just making me want to quit this show.

I am definitely on the same wavelength. Maybe I repressed how utterly annoying and entertainment-sucking I found his character in the previous run, but it took me by surprise in the season premiere.

Also, so very tired of Sam having to constantly coddle and apologize to Andi, something I'd hoped was a thing of the past once she knew about the existence of the supernatural and its role in his life.