Jo had agency in the episode.
She did, ill-advised and ill-informed as it was, but that scene totally wigged me out. Made it interesting to write about it, and still gives me the chills thinking about it.
See, Vera? Dress yourself up; you get taken out somewhere fun.
Jayne ,'Our Mrs. Reynolds'
Supernatural 1: Saving People, Hunting Things - the Family Business
[NAFDA]. This is where we talk about the CW series Supernatural! Anything that's aired in the US (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though -- if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.
Consuela - Aug 14, 2007 6:16:10 pm PDT #1216 of 10002
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix
Nutty - Aug 14, 2007 6:17:10 pm PDT #1217 of 10002
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."
Jo had agency in the episode
In the episode, yes. Which is why that one shot is so disorienting and offputting.
P.M. Marc - Aug 14, 2007 6:18:37 pm PDT #1218 of 10002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
She did, ill-advised and ill-informed as it was, but that scene totally wigged me out. Made it interesting to write about it, and still gives me the chills thinking about it.
It was viscerally disturbing.
Ailleann - Aug 14, 2007 6:22:51 pm PDT #1219 of 10002
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda
OK, so I'll come out of the closet as the Worst Feminist Ever, but...
The perpetrator in No Exit was known for violence against women. A violence which was sexualized by the perp. Why would his violence not manifest that way against our protagonist?
I see it when people point it out, but this kind of stuff just doesn't ping me at all. I'm going to feminist Hell, but oh well.
Nutty - Aug 14, 2007 6:26:24 pm PDT #1220 of 10002
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."
Why would his violence not manifest that way against our protagonist?
It's a perspective thing. There are ways to show that same concept in a way that doesn't invite the viewer to participate. I felt, when watching that shot, that I was being invited to enjoy Jo's fear, not that I was being invited to identify with her. Just a few moments earlier, as she fumbled for her flashlight, that was ID with her. That shot, she was suddenly transformed into an object for my putative pleasure.
Needless to say, pleasure was not had.
Ailleann - Aug 14, 2007 6:30:11 pm PDT #1221 of 10002
vanguard of the socialist Hollywood liberal homosexualist agenda
that I was being invited to enjoy Jo's fear
Well, this shows that audiences come from all angles.
That creeped the shit out of me. It reminded me that evil people (often men) perpetrate violence. I empathized with Jo, I felt her fear. I didn't enjoy it at all, and I didn't feel like I was supposed to. I felt like I was supposed to have the crap scared out of me.
I didn't think it was sexy that she was being attacked. Maybe that's because I have breasts.
Amy - Aug 14, 2007 6:34:28 pm PDT #1222 of 10002
Because books.
Just a few moments earlier, as she fumbled for her flashlight, that was ID with her. That shot, she was suddenly transformed into an object for my putative pleasure.
I'm with Ailleann. All I felt was what Jo felt. I still identified with her in that moment.
Theresa - Aug 14, 2007 6:42:39 pm PDT #1223 of 10002
"What would it take to get your daughter to stop tweeting about this?"
Just a few moments earlier, as she fumbled for her flashlight, that was ID with her. That shot, she was suddenly transformed into an object for my putative pleasure.
I'm with Ailleann. All I felt was what Jo felt. I still identified with her in that moment.
I'm still of that opinion as well. I took it as a moment I didn't want to watch, not one that I was meant to enjoy.
I also Comm'd Ailleann's numberDean remark, 'cause that is funny and true.
P.M. Marc - Aug 14, 2007 6:50:16 pm PDT #1224 of 10002
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
I felt, when watching that shot, that I was being invited to enjoy Jo's fear, not that I was being invited to identify with her. Just a few moments earlier, as she fumbled for her flashlight, that was ID with her. That shot, she was suddenly transformed into an object for my putative pleasure.
I was still in the identification space with the shot, and didn't get the objectification read from it, or at least no more so than when Vampira's doing that jaw grab thing with Dean in Dead Man's Blood.
I feel like I'm having a hard time explaining, though, why that shot bothers me less than countless others. I suspect it's the combination of agency and identification space? BUaBS, I have identification space, but Jo's agency's removed (returned later, but not in the same way that it is in No Exit).
Atropa - Aug 14, 2007 7:06:58 pm PDT #1225 of 10002
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.
I don't think Lum or Sisabet think there's an agenda, just a strong and not very thought out dependence on some tropes that are, when viewed as a group, deeply disturbing.
nods
And it's one of the things that's a source of irritation and eye-rolly-ness for me. Again, I haven't seen the majority of S2, and I've been told that S2 is much better about using those tropes. But when Pete and I were watching S1, it got to the point that if an episode featured an attractive girl, we expected her to be menaced and probably dead.
I love the horror genre, and I understand that violence against women is a recurring trope in the genre. I don't think Kripke and the rest of the SPN crew have a particular agenda, but I do think they're not paying close enough attention to how often they use certain tropes, and how often they're playing those tropes straight instead of doing something different with them.