but that isn't the case

Um, what? That's absolutely the case. All of those are clips from the show. The vid is made by two women who adore the show.

They didn't invent the clips. The show isn't about violence against women: but it uses it, in (I suggest) a relatively unthinking way. And the vid is about holding that up to the light and saying, "Do you see what you're doing, here?"

the show has, particularly in season one, and as shown in the vid, given us more women as victims, and sexualized that victimhood in a way that they have not done with the men.

I think there's a lot to be said, or explored, there about the nature of violence toward women, in general, and the nature of a lot of the myths the show has used. I'd have to think about that for a long time before posting much about it, but I will say this: I don't think Kripke et al have an agenda, even if I also believe they haven't exactly tried to subvert any social norms already in place.

haven't exactly tried to subvert any social norms already in place

This. I mean, it's not a show about women saving themselves, but OTOH they're not Captivity...

I don't think Kripke et al have an agenda, even if I also believe they haven't exactly tried to subvert any social norms already in place.

No, I don't think any of this is a conscious agenda. They're well-meaning people. Looked at one at a time, there isn't a single episode I would really point to and say, "that's misogynistic". But I look at that vid, and I'm both fascinated and horrified: there's been that much? Holy cow.

Everyone has an equal opportunity, maybe. And yet the show has, particularly in season one, and as shown in the vid, given us more women as victims, and sexualized that victimhood in a way that they have not done with the men. Women in showers, women in swimsuits, women in bedclothes, women in bed, dying.

Unfortunately I think you are right about the numbers and some of the ways shown.

You don't see the violence against men fetished on the show, you don't see male victim's bodies displayed the way the women's are.

Wendigo had a man strung up and hanging as the victim. Quite often the people being tortured involve Sam and Dean, and I don't see them as less sexualized in this show than women. I think it's a whole different beast from the typical horror show torture-porn.

Um, what? That's absolutely the case. All of those are clips from the show. The vid is made by two women who adore the show.

They didn't invent the clips. The show isn't about violence against women: but it uses it, in (I suggest) a relatively unthinking way. And the vid is about holding that up to the light and saying, "Do you see what you're doing, here?"

But they selectively used particular clips and selectively didn't use any clips with violence against men that absolutely did exist.

I don't think Kripke et al have an agenda, even if I also believe they haven't exactly tried to subvert any social norms already in place.

I don't think Lum or Sisabet think there's an agenda, just a strong and not very thought out dependence on some tropes that are, when viewed as a group, deeply disturbing.

I think Kripke is an old man in more ways than one. Often well-meaning, but, not often a deep thinker about the traditions in which he participates.

sexualized violence

A good example (I thought) of this, for Jo, is Wossname Serial Killer groping her hair/neck in the coffin in No Exit. It was possible to show her scared and menaced in other ways, but the visual composition of that shot was unpleasantly vibey. I know some disagree with me on that one.

Quite often the people being tortured involve Sam and Dean, and I don't see them as less sexualized in this show than women.

No, but they're not victims, either. They have agency. Sexualizing Sam and Dean (which the show absolutely does) operates differently than sexualizing the victims. When you sexualize the victims, you sexualize their victimhood.

Sam and Dean are sexy in part because they're heroes, not victims. Even when they're being beaten up, they're still heroes and it's hot to see Dean with a bruise and know he's still going to kick ass as soon as he gets back on his feet.

I do see that as a different thing. YBMV.

But I look at that vid, and I'm both fascinated and horrified: there's been that much? Holy cow.

I get that. I think the impact is also intensified because of the format, though.

This. I mean, it's not a show about women saving themselves, but OTOH they're not Captivity...

Also, this. That show's been done. Called BtVS (although even there, it wasn't always true).

I may be socially irresponsible (and I mean that honestly, not snarkily) but when a show like this one offers other meat for me to chew on (such as family, sacrifice, the experience of extreme outsiderdom), I don't tend to watch with an eye toward where it's playing right into uncomfortable and squicky social *values* for lack of a better word. I get up in arms about the in-your-face stuff like Girls Gone Wild and The Pussycat Dolls and clothes for six-year-olds with "PRINCESS" printed on the ass.

And I know you love the show! I'm glad you do. You write good fic!

No, but they're not victims, either. They have agency. Sexualizing Sam and Dean (which the show absolutely does) operates differently than sexualizing the victims. When you sexualize the victims, you sexualize their victimhood.

Agreed. (Which, actually, is why I disagree with Nutty about Jo in No Exit. Jo had agency in the episode.)