I interacted with Gus more than a lot of people and I don't have any after trauma from his pseudicide. To be honest, I don't feel like any long lasting online community has really earned it's stripes until they've gone through one. It's just an inevitable part of online communities, but it doesn't make me leery about them. It's just inherent to the beast that somebody will do that kind of shit.

Just as there will always be trolls and inevitably you will need to find a way to ban them. That's why we went through all the pain and agony of creating our voting procedures, instead of leaving everything loosey goosey.

We're still very self-policing, but we have ways to deal with bigger abuses.

I'd rather Cindy not delete her posts (may be too late) because they're a big part of our history and that moment.

I'd just as soon write it up in our FAQ and say this is what happened. It did happen.

We take it on faith that people are who they say they are - even when we know that sometimes they're not. One of the big lessons I learned from literature was from I.B. Singer's story "Gimpel the Fool" where he basically argued that to create community, to do good in the world you have to risk credulity. You have to extend some trust beyond what is necessarily earned.

Y'all may not agree with that but I also think that's part of the deal. Being open makes things possible, but it makes you vulnerable.

I don't get angry about Gus at all. It's just part of our story.

Cindy, the reason I don't want you to delete everything is exactly the same as the reason I can't stop you (and wouldn't dream of it if I could): because it's yours. If history were at all prone to do-overs, the easiest possible outcome would be for Gus never to have been here. But our history -- OURS, as a community, who love each other but sometimes don't and have been through a lot more together than most flesh friendships I know -- is that it did.

But our history is also that you did that detective work FOR US. To help us. This is not at all about whether the facts could all be reconstructed again if someone wants proof, because I have exactly zero interest in going and sticking facts in some other community's face*. I care rather fiercely about your account of things because it's yours and it's ours. It (and just the fact of it) matters far more to me than anything TVT has ever touched.

* I lied. I don't have zero interest, I have seriously negative interest. I want it documented, and I want us to be open about it whenever anyone asks, and I think that going to tell them The Truth About Gus would lead to extremely bad outcomes. Hostile outcomes. People coming here on the attack outcomes. Not because TVT is especially nasty, but because that's how humans are when their tribes get poked. And the fact that we're even seriously talking about ripping out a whole account system to protect ourselves against it should be a be a big warning that we all kinda know how bad it could get.

Allyson, to be clear, I was only thinking about deleting my bureau posts, and only then, because they were only ever meant for you all, not for all the tubes.

I don't know. If Gus would come back here for a second, admit what he did and apologize, I might champion (ptui) him.

As it stands right now? I HATE what he did to us (and me, because... and) us. My ugly bits want him to hang. My principled bits want to let it go.

er...

Not because I think what he did was okay. It's because I don't want to be judged on my worst sins. I don't want you all to know my worst sins. I acknowledge that I've SUCKED beyond the telling of it, in so many areas of my life, and so when someone else sucks, I sort of want to let it go.

What Gus/Guy Straley/kimi/Fast Eddie/Janitor did to us? It sucked and still sucks. I WANT a lot out of that, but when I distill it, I just want the suck to stop and the love to prevail.

Jesus. No one actually died. We got trolled.

I just want the suck to stop and the love to prevail.

Aww, I think the love has prevailed. We're all still here, after all. Doing our thing, having a F2F, cheering on ita and Ginger, wishing Hec & JZ happy birthday, sending around the box of nail polish, sharing our book reviews & sending ita photos for Provocateuse. Gus caused some upset, and there is lingering indigestion, but we kept on, and he can't harm us any more.

My only real concern here (setting aside my aforementioned malice) is that he not cause the same kind of upset--or worse--to another community.

But I also think going to TVT is a bad idea. I do think maybe just putting it in the FAQ is the thing to do. So if the question ever comes up, we can say, "Here: this is what we know about Gus, and why we don't think you should trust him."

Well, that's sort of my point. He did no harm, other than emotional harm at his exit.

eta: the above was a response to Allyson, not Consuela.

I wasn't suggesting* going to TVT. I was suggesting contacting The Mary Sue (or whatever media outlet) via email or other private means. I don't know if other people had been thinking of going to them, but that was never my intention, at all**.

* "suggesting" isn't quite the right word. "Bringing forward the idea of"

** Obvious disclaimer that the person who starts the conversation doesn't get to define the terms of it for the entirety of it's existence. Just clarifying.

I'm sorry, I know people are pissed about it, but all that happened really is that we got trolled by the guy that now runs TV Tropes. No one here is surprised that he's a loser who continues to act like a dick.

I whole-heartedly agree, Allyson, but I think that's why I wish we'd let it go. He came. He trolled. We conquered. That we didn't buy an OxFam goat is enough for me. I just didn't want people breaking their budgets on his behalf, when I always knew he was a faker.