jumping into the "baby" discussion.

what drives me more nuts than anything is when you tell someone you don't want kids and they rebutt with "you'll change your mind". WTF?! are you in my brain? no i'm not going to change my mind. i've had this opinion for as long as i can remember. kids and i are meant to live in separate homes. i love them much more when they go home with their mommies.

of course, now when someone tells me that, i have the added bonus of guilting them with "no, i won't change my mind because i can't have kids. thankyouveddymuch!"

Some people totally do, of course. But nobody should take that for granted.

Go you indeed, erika!

They would be totally lucky to get me. It feels good to feel that way.

Parental meara!

The most frustrating question I get asked, even now, is about the 6.5 year age gap between the kids.

I get asked often if my sister's my half sister, because of the 14 year gap. Nope. Just a combo of BC and MC between us.

I was really good with grownups, and failed miserably at socialization with other kids.

Heh. I'm #2 of 3, and this is/was me.

As much as I love parenting, it doesn't feed all of my needs, nor even close.

Oh yeah. I mean, parenthood, in a real way, completed me as a person, but it's not all of me, nor should it be, and I love having other things in my life. Like hobbies and a job. They keep me sane.

I don't know that I'm a particularly good parent, and I get kind of frustrated by the continual judging of parents in our society.

A world of word.

Parental meara!

OMG, I read this and was like "Ack, so not ready for THAT yet!!" and then realized what you meant. :)

I'm only talking about how I'd choose in that situation.

That's what makes a horse race.

Somehow it seems that being able to rise to the occasion of parenting is part of the definition of decency. I mean, how else could you contend that decent people would rise to the occasion? What subtlety am I missing here?

I know people who are beyond decent, who are flat out good, but I think would be sub-par parents. I don't judge them for that, I don't think that it makes them less good.

It's just a role for which they would be ill-suited, whether or not they took it on.

Being a good person doesn't ensure being a good parent, and being a Bitch doesn't either.

Strictly speaking ita, you're right. I can't know who here is a decent person. I assumed decency among the people participating in the converation, based on internet conversations and a few brief meetings with some.

If I got pregnant and decided to parent a child and did it badly, would I have to turn in my "decent" card? I mean, assuming I have one.

I have some discomfort with calling childlessness "a life of one's own." Everyone has a life of one's own. Parents have a life of their own--it is more proscribed and has more demands, but it IS their own life. People who choose to live with someone as a romantic partner, or single people who live with elderly parents or, hell, even folks with roommates they are close to all have their own lives. I know exactly what Teppy meant, and as a person with no children, I have had judgmental comments directed my way. This is entirely a picky semantic concern on my part.

t hearts Robin

This is a difficult topic for me, but it is also one I feel very strongly about. I get very frustrated with both the idealization of parenthood and the idealization of non-parenthood. Both life situations have their pros and cons. Being a parent is really hard. Being a non-parent can also be really hard. You can have a "life" either way, though I'm not contesting that having a child greatly shapes that life.

Honestly, the thing that bothers me most about being childless now is not having my immediate family (who I define as ND and me) taken seriously. Strike One: not married. Strike Two: no kids. But even when I was married, I still fought against that bias. Being childless somehow meant that we weren't a "real" family--that we weren't "real" adults. Some people were (and are) downright patronizing about it.

Like I said, I actually would like a child. But if I never have one, that doesn't make me less of a grown up.

Oh, and side note: I loved being an only child, though I do find the lack of sibling support difficult when one of my divorced parents needs me. But watching ND deal with his sister and my DexH wrangle his brother reminds me that siblings sometimes add to the burden rather than lessen it.

of course, now when someone tells me that, i have the added bonus of guilting them with "no, i won't change my mind because i can't have kids. thankyouveddymuch!"

ETA: What tiggy said.

I know people who are beyond decent, who are flat out good, but I think would be sub-par parents. I don't judge them for that, I don't think that it makes them less good.

It's just a role for which they would be ill-suited, whether or not they took it on.

EETA: And what ita said to the nth degree.

In other words, what happens when a commitmentphobe meets a serial monogamist?

sounds like a line from Sex and the City, the one where Carrie is typing :)

I've known you for a while, and I don't think that you're commitment phobic. Don't forget that some of your relationships have ended not of your choosing, so you weren't the one avoiding commitment. I haven't seen you with anyone that you seemed to like enough to consider commitment in a while.

I would think that there's no need to put the brakes on right now, because you're still comfortable/having a good time, right? I would think that brakes only need to be applied if you aren't happy. There's no need to put on preemptory brakes. IMHO.

Now, consider that I haven't been in a serious relationship for 10 years, but I haven't really met anyone that I have wanted to be in a relationship with.

If I got pregnant and decided to parent a child and did it badly, would I have to turn in my "decent" card? I mean, assuming I have one.

I know people who are beyond decent, who are flat out good, but I think would be sub-par parents.

How are you defining badly? What makes a person a sub-par parent? My brother's a bad parent. He never (or rarely) sees his kid, and flakes on commitments beyond sending money to the account. He's not abusive, he's just not around.

Most people will, at the least, be okay parents. They'll raise reasonably productive members of society who'll go on to raise other reasonably productive members of society, and so on and so forth.

I'm twitchy about this, because I *know* I'm judged by SAHM friends for working and having my kid in daycare, for not totally subsuming myself under the needs of the child. I strive to be good enough as a parent, and to raise a kid who is as happy and well-adjusted as possible, but not by sacrificing myself on the alter of a mythical perfect childhood.