I did that to somebody...he took it very personally. I was too blunt. But if I had it to do over(or with somebody else) I wouldn't let him date fucking April and then meet the real me when we break up.

Heh. Well, in this case *I* would be the committmentphobe (I've never dated anyone for more than about eight months, and that was a long-distance relationship. And I should've broken up with her about three months before I did...). She's the one who's been married three times!!!

Ah, total misread on my part...but the thought is the same, just reverse it!

re: biological clock.

Kittens. I hear a little kitten mew, and my ovaries go kerplunk. Babies--I check to see if there's someone around with custody and I go the other way.

Yes, I'm odd.

Kittens. I hear a little kitten mew, and my ovaries go kerplunk.

Same here. Pete is the only thing standing between me and crazy cat lady-dom.

You can bet how you want, but I have the inside info.

But I do know a lot about you, ita. I know that you bristle when anybody tries to define you (to cite a completely random example). I don't claim the inside information, but I feel like I have enough outside information to place a bet.

If, for example, I was in a circumstance where I had to leave Emmett in somebody's care and the choice was between you and Random Bystander, I wouldn't hesitate to choose you. I'd even feel fairly confident in that choice.

You may well refuse that obligation, but I'm only talking about how I'd choose in that situation.

Pete is the only thing standing between me and crazy cat lady-dom

You can hide them in your petticoats.

Pete is the only thing standing between me and crazy cat lady-dom

Ozzie's that thing for me.

Oy vey. Um, they take it verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slowly?

Um. So I guess spending almost every night together doesn't count, eh?

checks to make sure she's not meara, becomes very disappointed that she is not that foamy

No, not really, sweetheart.

I'm not so much a commitmentphobe, but yeah. If you want this to last, I think you might need to put the brakes on a bit.

Then again, you may want to consider the source.

I call bullshit. There are too many bad parents out there to safely make that assumption. And a "Well, Bitches would rise to the occasion" rejoinder gets a "Bullshit" reply from me too. You just don't know. Being a good person doesn't ensure being a good parent, and being a Bitch doesn't either.

Strictly speaking ita, you're right. I can't know who here is a decent person. I assumed decency among the people participating in the converation, based on internet conversations and a few brief meetings with some. Before I continue, I want to note I wasn't trying to argue anyone into having a baby. I think it's great that so many people are so self aware, and not diving blind and headlong into a lifelong role.

I don't think anyone should have children, unless he or she is really sure and really wants to. It's not the life for everyone. That said, the specific thought I'd been trying to express is when Hec said:

I'm making a distinction here between folks saying they selfishly want to have their own free time so choose not to have kids vs. people who think they would be bad parents because of said selfishness. If you actually had the kid, the selfishness is moot.

I think selfishness* (or important goals, pursuits, and interests that would be hindered by having a child) is a great reason not to have a child, but not because that sort of "selfishness" will make you a bad parent. I think that, because it can make you an unhappy parent. Mooted selfishness won't make you a good parent, by the way. It's just part of what happens to decent people, when they're left totally responsible for something vulnerable and helpless.

If you're speaking of Buffistas, then I'll grant you that. I assume you aren't speaking of humans in general.

I wasn't even speaking of Buffistas in general, or Bitches in general, just the people who chimed in. But still, ita's right, I can't know. For all I know, you'd abandon your baby to the Lutherans, and never look back.

I think that *any* reason that anyone chooses not to have kids -- including because they want their own life, unencumbered by kids -- is absolutely valid and not selfish.

Exactly. I think the only reason the word is in this conversation, is because ita used it to describe herself. I can't remember if anyone else did. I avoid it, because I think the word has been wielded as a weapon (in the culture, not here) against people self-aware enough to choose not to have kids, when they know it doesn't match their interests and abilities.

This is quite a conversation to drop into just as the communists are leaving town.

People say adoption is horrible? WTF?

Got no advice for meara, but yay for having a fun reason taking up your time!