I was talking to my sister about an upcoming family wedding that will be adults-only, and they are considering leaving the kids for the weekend and coming up. And she said, you know, I don't even know (her husband) as a person anymore. I know him only as a father, and my partner in raising the kids. And that wigged me out too.

That can definitely happen in a marriage with kids.

Anyway, it seems difficult to articulate a case for parenting without it seeming like an implicit critique of choosing not to have kids. I don't care about societal expectations so I don't really frame the discussion that way. I only know my experience and how it has changed me.

As ever, I may have over generalized my experience. But I would still contend that Cindy's argument is correct. That basic human decency would suffice to compel most of the people here to rise above what ever limits of energy and selfishness they see in themselves. If they had to.

Yeah. I stopped saying to Tom that I wanted a red-haired baby girl and started with the dog thing just the other day. Somehow he's much more receptive to it than before!

See, and that's another reason I can't have a baby- I'm WAY too specific about what attributes I desire. That's just... accessorizing, innit?

The best defense for dealing with commitmentphobes is to remember that whatever is causing their fear (and we all have plenty of that) is not about you

Heh. Well, in this case *I* would be the committmentphobe (I've never dated anyone for more than about eight months, and that was a long-distance relationship. And I should've broken up with her about three months before I did...). She's the one who's been married three times!!!

Funnily enough Cashmere, I can say the same. Once I had a place to put all that neurosis and love I had, a particular calmness came over me.

I did that to somebody...he took it very personally. I was too blunt. But if I had it to do over(or with somebody else) I wouldn't let him date fucking April and then meet the real me when we break up.

Heh. Well, in this case *I* would be the committmentphobe (I've never dated anyone for more than about eight months, and that was a long-distance relationship. And I should've broken up with her about three months before I did...). She's the one who's been married three times!!!

Ah, total misread on my part...but the thought is the same, just reverse it!

re: biological clock.

Kittens. I hear a little kitten mew, and my ovaries go kerplunk. Babies--I check to see if there's someone around with custody and I go the other way.

Yes, I'm odd.

Kittens. I hear a little kitten mew, and my ovaries go kerplunk.

Same here. Pete is the only thing standing between me and crazy cat lady-dom.

You can bet how you want, but I have the inside info.

But I do know a lot about you, ita. I know that you bristle when anybody tries to define you (to cite a completely random example). I don't claim the inside information, but I feel like I have enough outside information to place a bet.

If, for example, I was in a circumstance where I had to leave Emmett in somebody's care and the choice was between you and Random Bystander, I wouldn't hesitate to choose you. I'd even feel fairly confident in that choice.

You may well refuse that obligation, but I'm only talking about how I'd choose in that situation.

Pete is the only thing standing between me and crazy cat lady-dom

You can hide them in your petticoats.